Home
News
rFactor 2
rFactor 1
Forums
Contact
Company
Technology
Image Space Inc. YouTube rFactor 2 Twitter Image Space Inc. Google Plus rFactor 2 Facebook
Mediafire
Try or Buy rFactor 2
$43.99/84.99 Windows Only PCDL
Download rFactor 2 Demo Now!

NOTICE Notice: This is an old thread and information may be out of date. The last post was 84 days ago. Please consider making a new thread.
Page 3 of 14 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 279

  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Setting up your rFactor FOV - Tutorial

  1. #41
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

     PC Specification 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Wheatley View Post
    Yeah I too think 60 is too close - unless you have more than one screen. 60 feels perfect when you have triple screens setup.
    ? really ? 60 VERTICAL FOV is too close? If your working on a SIMULATOR, a real racing sim, then you should be working to get as close to the real thing as you can.

    Honda seems to understand FOV and triplehead.

    Look at the center screen. Is that not the view I am preaching here? I am pretty confident honda know how to create a vehicle sim to realistic spec.

    Now I seem to have to whip this example out in every forum at some point. I will show you the worst most incorrect FOV I have ever seen.



    He is sitting in an F1 car with visible REAL front wheels and look at where her virtual ones are. This is a great example of "Doing it wrong"

    Now for a shining example of doing it right. Same basic cockpit. Same style of f1 car. Note where the in-game wheels appear to be.



    The virtual wheels are where the real wheels SHOULD BE! He is using a simulator. The first pic is just someone sitting in an overpriced uncomfortable seat playing a racing game.

    UPDATE: This image was posted along with the new interview with simHQ. It is a correct FOV as you can see the tires almost line up with the real ones and the virtual wheel is turned off (like it should be) but the actual view is obviously too high. A bit of tweaking could get that close to perfect. Better still cut a hole and lower all the monitors down 2-3 inches.

    Last edited by ZeosPantera; 10-08-10 at 03:56 AM.

  2. #42
    LesiU's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Where I race Modding Group: SimRacingPL 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Here are two videos showing differences between low and high FOV. In both, I modified camera position (my reference was visual distance to ADL display - in both is the same) but only in horizontal plane (fore/aft). Vertical seat position is exactly the same in both videos.

    FOV 28: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoARQ1P_nFY
    FOV 60: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c-S0F0Sj78

    First thing to notice is, how perspective deformes items in screen's edges (for example, how ADL get stretched when I'm turning my head). You don't have that with low FOV.
    Second thing - relative distance between ADL and steering wheel. At low FOV it just feels right. ADL is about 17-18cm wide. OMP steering wheel is 32cm in diameter and is about 20-25cm from ADL.
    At high FOV the ADL looks like it is very small when looking at it straight. When I turn my head, it get zoomed in towards camera (and got stretched). That's because with high FOV you get artifically zoomed out picture (in center of the screen that effect is more visible). The same is for example with right external mirror, how far it seems to be when you look at it with high FOV... but in fact it is only about 1,2-1,3m from the driver
    Last edited by LesiU; 10-08-10 at 08:33 PM.

  3. #43
    fobban's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    I too like lower FOV, but I must say that it makes it a bit harder since it's nearly impossible (at least for me with my single monitor) to look at the mirrors during race (one would have to look right and left). That makes it really hard, especially during F1 starts when it's crowded.

    Easiest when only having one display (this is my personal opinion) is using the TV cockpit view and the virtual mirrors on top. But the TV cockpit isn't exactly realistic, so I don't use that view any more.

    Why can't we get the virtual mirrors when using the cockpit mode? Sure it's not realistic considering the small monitor and the FOV you've got, but at least it tries to mimic real life where you don't really need to turn your head that much to look at the mirrors.

  4. #44
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

     PC Specification 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Quote Originally Posted by fobban View Post
    Why can't we get the virtual mirrors when using the cockpit mode? Sure it's not realistic considering the small monitor and the FOV you've got, but at least it tries to mimic real life where you don't really need to turn your head that much to look at the mirrors.
    Happy Birthday.. YOU CAN! Instructions are at the bottom of the first post.

  5. #45
    fobban's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeosPantera View Post
    Happy Birthday.. YOU CAN! Instructions are at the bottom of the first post.
    Awwh, awesome! Thanks ZeosPantera!

  6. #46
    Ferrino's Avatar
     

    New Member
    Oct 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeosPantera View Post
    Now for a shining example of doing it right. Same basic cockpit. Same style of f1 car. Note where the in-game wheels appear to be.



    The virtual wheels are where the real wheels SHOULD BE! He is using a simulator. The first pic is just someone sitting in an overpriced uncomfortable seat playing a racing game.
    This is a great (and rare) example where the virtual and real cockpits align well (i.e. where you don't feel like you're driving a remote-control car).

    How do you manipulate the position of the camera to get a similar view in rFactor?

  7. #47
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

     PC Specification 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrino View Post
    How do you manipulate the position of the camera to get a similar view in rFactor?
    See first post.

  8. #48
    Jouni's Avatar

     PC Specification 

    Newer Member
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Vantaa, Finland
    IŽd like to thank all of you contributing to this thread. This has risen the enjoyment of mine in rFactor greatly. Ive been driving with 60-65 FOV since rF release in all mods i race with.
    Im now at default 35 FOV, although not still probably low enough, but is much more fun to drive. At first, I thought i wouldnt manage with it very well, but after a few hours of practice and testing different mods, I settled in and it felt very good and right. Last night broke my pb in an online race that i managed to also win to my suprise.
    Today have hade awesome fun playing with the old Historix cars with the new FOV.
    I highly recomend to give it a go. Hey! if an old 55y old Grandpa can learn new things, im sure lots of you will be suprised how well it reals-in after some practice.

    edit: the difference in 65 vers 35, moving seat back to still see the dash.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Jouni; 10-10-10 at 03:01 PM. Reason: added 2 pics
    Uphold Gentlemen driver standards. Police yourself!

  9. #49
    LesiU's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Where I race Modding Group: SimRacingPL 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Great!

  10. #50
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

     PC Specification 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Some new footage of the FOV from a real world perspective.


  11. #51
    pcline25's Avatar

     PC Specification 

    Newer Member
    Oct 2010
    Location
    North Carolina
    AWESOME Tutorial! As one who runs a lot of iRacing I found it hard to go back and run ISI type sims and mods but this guide changed all of that. Can't thank you enough for this.

  12. #52
    Lazza's Avatar

     PC Specification Where I race 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    As usual in these discussions most of the 'arguments' are just people referring to different things.

    And the problem with videos like the one above is that we're viewing the screen as a relatively small image - so the perspecitive mimics high-FOV values in a way, but with a much smaller viewport. So of course people will think it's unrealistic, because to them you're just limiting your view.

    The point with using lower FOV is to match it to your screen, and its distance away from you, so that what you're seeing is 'correct'. As far as realistic goes, that's the only way to get it right.

    However, this requires a good amount of screen real estate to be able to see anywhere but directly in front (unless you want to use that terrible 'look-ahead' feature [ok, I'm sure people get used to it and like it - congratulations ]) - so if you want to be able to see a bit to the side, and your mirrors, and you don't have huge/close/multiple screens, low FOV isn't for you.

    Just to recap; there are 2 types of realistic here:

    1. Being able to see about the same amount on screen as you would in real life.
    2. Perspective being correct.

    You can get both happening, but you need big screens. I suspect most people tend to favour option 1, because while proper perspective is nice it's even nicer to be able to see where you're going and where other cars are.

    It's all relative of course, and personal preference.

  13. #53
    LesiU's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Where I race Modding Group: SimRacingPL 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Yup, that's true. To really have good experience with natural FOV, you need really wide picture. Here are 2 examples of how it would like on a triple panoramic screen (I only have TV, so I fired up rF in a window mode, with SoftTH on).

    Could you tell from them, that's "only" FOV 25*?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #54
    Lazza's Avatar

     PC Specification Where I race 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by LesiU View Post
    Could you tell from them, that's "only" FOV 25*?
    Of course not... because if I display those pictures fullscreen on my 23" screen it looks like a 61° FOV with the top and bottom cut off... unless I sit with my face just under 25cm (10") away from the screen

    I hope this is helping some people understand the objective of this thread, and why they might not like what they're seeing with such low FOV values. I wouldn't recommend modifying your FOV for realistic perspective if you have a single screen in front of you - but, like extreme look-ahead, some people will do it and like it... each to their own.

    I agree that having huge multiple screens and still using a high FOV is a bit silly, because the opportunity is there to make it look correct. But when people are used to that, it will take them a while to get used to driving with an adjusted FOV - even if it is what they'd see in real life. It's an interesting situation, where they'd sit there looking at correct perspective and say that it looks 'wrong' - purely because it's not what they're accustomed to

  15. #55
    LesiU's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Where I race Modding Group: SimRacingPL 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Lazza, rF perspective has nothing to do with size of your display, and how far you sit in front of it. And here's why.
    Let's assume 2 guys, both have same panoramic 16:9 screens, but in different size and sit at different distance in front of them:
    1. 92,6" diagonal picture on a wall, sitting 1m in front of it. That should give you 60* of vertical FOV.
    2. 21" diagonal monitor, sitting 0,5m. That is 20" vertical FOV.

    Both have proper FOV, right? But do both have proper perspective? Launch 60* FOV and go drive round a track, and compare to what perspective you have with 20* FOV.
    Your attempt just won't work like would like! If ISI would provide the same proper perspective and you, by changing the FOV, only "cut off" a slice from that picture for your calculations (so that 20 or 60" is a part of a bigger screen with proper perspective) then that will work. But what we have in rF 1, it just won't. Perspective on that 92.6" sized picture won't change if you step back from 1 to 5 meters It will still be the same, because of high FOV value.

    That's why you have to set FOV with proper perspective (from my tests, it might be something between 28-31*) and if you want "get real", buy a screen big enough, to provide 1:1 scale sized elements from a place where they would be in real world. So if you sit 2m in front of your screen, having your steering wheel in front of you in normal driving position... then Motec display is usually 20-30cm behind the steering wheel. When you put in that place a ruller and measure from that point, Motec ADL width on your screen, then you should get.... 18cm, with picture with realistic in-game driver position. I hope you understand what I mean

    Talking about FOV in general - yes, most people don't want proper FOV because they feel weird when see a picture like through a box...but that's how they would see the world in real life, if they will look through a box sized like their monitor/TV.

  16. #56
    Lazza's Avatar

     PC Specification Where I race 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by LesiU View Post
    Lazza, rF perspective has nothing to do with size of your display, and how far you sit in front of it.
    Hmm... the distance from the screen, and the size of the screen, is what this is all about. I may be misunderstanding, but it sounds like you think rFactor itself is somehow doing something weird with the perspective so that a particular FOV is 'correct', while all others are wrong. This is not true.

    To test the 2 layouts you describe, you need to be able to sit in those 2 layouts. If you record rFactor on your system with 25° FOV, and it looks good to you, but I then play that video in windowed mode, or use a smaller screen, or sit farther back, it will have pincushion distortion - because my FOV is lower than yours, same as yours is lower than rFactor's default. Perspective is all about making what's drawn on screen match what you would see through a plane at the same distance and size as your screen, if you were in that 'world'.

    For a long time (maybe still) FPS games had 90° horizontal FOV - this gave a pincushion effect because for the perspective to work you needed the left edge of the screen 45° to your left, and the right edge 45° to your right - then the perspective drawn on screen matches what you'd expect - but of course with the small screens generally available that means being very close to it. No one sat that close, so the perspective looked 'wrong'. But, it was actually fine, and has been since the days of Doom.

    You can make rF default FOV look fine... just get a big enough screen or get very very close to the one you have. I'm not saying it's an ideal way to play, but the perspective works fine.

    If ISI 'forced' a low FOV that made sense sitting at your 21" screen (say 20°), you would have correct perspective and a small window to look through, yes. But anyone with a huge screen and an actual FOV of 60° will have a barrel distortion effect using those values. (that is, objects at the centre of screen will appear too large in comparison to those at the edges - the opposite of pincushion distortion)

    That's why this thread is about calculating your true FOV - so that you can set rF accordingly and the perspective is correct.

  17. #57
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

     PC Specification 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazza View Post
    Hmm... the distance from the screen, and the size of the screen, is what this is all about.

    For a long time (maybe still) FPS games had 90° horizontal FOV - this gave a pincushion effect because for the perspective to work you needed the left edge of the screen 45° to your left, and the right edge 45° to your right - then the perspective drawn on screen matches what you'd expect - but of course with the small screens generally available that means being very close to it. No one sat that close, so the perspective looked 'wrong'.

    You can make rF default FOV look fine... just get a big enough screen or get very very close to the one you have. I'm not saying it's an ideal way to play, but the perspective works fine.

    If ISI 'forced' a low FOV that made sense sitting at your 21" screen (say 20°), you would have correct perspective and a small window to look through, yes. But anyone with a huge screen and an actual FOV of 60° will have a barrel distortion effect using those values. (that is, objects at the centre of screen will appear too large in comparison to those at the edges - the opposite of pincushion distortion)

    That's why this thread is about calculating your true FOV - so that you can set rF accordingly and the perspective is correct.
    Absolutely correct. I would say this thread is actually about Playing rFactor as a game Vs Using it as a simulator. A game is allowed to skew your perspective, break the laws of physics and exaggerate explosions and such to make your experience fun. A true simulator should pretty much force everything to be as close to realistic as possible even if it no longer becomes fun. What annoys me is when they put a real race driver in a "sim" and I can see the FOV is completely incorrect and the rig itself is setup wrong. http://www.virtualr.net/mark-blundel...rfactor-video/


    I first noticed it in the Jeremy Clarkson @ Laguna Seca segment of Top Gear when he raced it on the PlayStation and then tried to match it in real life.. Very first thing he says is "I'm going down a strait that's not strait!! That is not a corner on the playstation" and that can be blamed solely on Gran Tourismo's FOV.

    Furthering my testing I have applied my 20.5x32 Degree RL-FOV to other games and had mixed results, it is great in Garry's mod for showing exactly how huge things that you build actually are and the maps are astonishingly scaled. Less successfully HL2-EP1 because the levels aren't designed for such a limited perspective and you have no idea whats going on around you. I have also played arma2 in a "close to" accurate FOV which makes it easier to see enemies over a distance but more dangerous around urban settings, Thus the squeezed 21x50 Fov. Another example is a friend set the game "Amnesia" to his correct 34 Degrees Horizontal fov and said it took the experience from scary to pant browning.



    If you go in understanding the compromises and the science behind it I find most people will get annoyed at how they were forced to play previously. I for one can no longer drive in anything but my correct fov. It switched in the video 4-5 posts up and the terrified scream I let out was due to the horror of changing from 20 to 65 fov, it took me right out of what I was doing and I nearly crashed it. Most new people I tell to just throw the FOV slider down to 35 and use that for a while. I'll ask the same of you Lazza. Don't go all the way. But ease yourself down until your comfortable... then go a little bit more.

  18. #58
    Lazza's Avatar

     PC Specification Where I race 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeosPantera View Post
    Most new people I tell to just throw the FOV slider down to 35 and use that for a while. I'll ask the same of you Lazza.
    Oh, I'm not adjusting mine. Mine's set to 60, which already gives me a lot less peripheral vision than the guys I race against with similar FOV and triple screens

    My priority is being able to race, so getting more realistic perspective will have to wait until my setup changes a lot. But I can see the merits, so just thought I'd try and clear up some of the confusion in here

  19. #59
    LesiU's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Where I race Modding Group: SimRacingPL 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Poland
    So you tries to tell, that rFactor magically will change perspective when you move further back from the monitor, without touching rF settings? Please, be serious Picture on the monitor won't change when you change your sitting place. You can move to the left, right, up and down... the picture on your screen will remain the same!
    Screen size also doesn't matter at all. rF have no idea if you have 7" or 150" display. So it doesn't matter if you have FOV 60* on big screen or small. Perspective with that FOV will always be the same, no matter what monitor you have, of what proportions (4:3, 5:4, 16:9... doesn't matter). Of course you keep in mind that in rF, you are working with vertical FOV?

  20. #60
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

     PC Specification 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Calm down LesiU. He does get it I am sure. I don't need a misunderstanding argument going back and forth for 8 pages.

Page 3 of 14 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •