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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Tapping a car in the rear question

  1. #1
    GTFREAK's Avatar

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    Tapping a car in the rear question

    rFactor had a problem with certain types of hits against other cars. When you hit a car in their left or right rear fender with your left or right front fender the car should go into a tailspin. I'm not sure what this is called, but the original rFactor handled this horribly. You are supposed to be able to spin a car out by tapping them in the rear fenders.

    Does rFactor 2 solve this issue with proper physics? Is it possible to spin a car when hit in the rear fenders? Nascar games used to handle this properly, but rFactor never got this right.

    I hope this has been resolved.

    Not that I want to do that, mind you.

  2. #2
    John DiFool's Avatar

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    I assume you mean the driving on rails in a Tiger tank AI; in such a collision you'll bounce off and spin wildly into the weeds, while they'll happily keep on truckin' down the track like nothing happened.

  3.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #3
    Scott Juliano's Avatar ISI Staff

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    Yes, you can sweet spot the AI now. Mind you, they still have very fast reaction times and can counter steer out of a lot of small hits, but a good sweet spot will do the trick... The good news is that the new tire model allows you to much better feel what the car is doing (and is about to do), and you too are more able to manage a small tap in the rear or side. In rF1 it would put me around everytime--the car is more save-able now. Of course that also all depends on the state of your car and tires--having the car unsettled from a tap when it's already loose, or the tires are worn--well, then it's harder to hold on, etc...
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  4. #4
    GTFREAK's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by John DiFool View Post
    I assume you mean the driving on rails in a Tiger tank AI; in such a collision you'll bounce off and spin wildly into the weeds, while they'll happily keep on truckin' down the track like nothing happened.
    If you've ever seen a police chase you'll know what I mean. Police will use this technique to spin out a car by tapping their front fender against the other cars rear fender. You also see this done in Nascar. I just noticed that in rFactor it was more difficult to pull this off than it should have been. I was hoping that rF2 had solved this problem. Perhaps this explanation was more clear. I think Scott answered my question, though. Thanks!

  5. #5
    beatnik's Avatar

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    I'd say the AI has this issue in rF1 but online against others it is perfectly fine.

  6. #6
    MaXyM's Avatar

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    @GTFFREAK
    I'm not sure is it as hard you say to get effect you described.
    Very often bumping rears makes drivers spin. I know it from our leagues life.
    In real life (referring to police chase) it is not so easy though. You have to hit a car in some specific angle.

  7. #7
    Carbonfibre's Avatar

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    Observe what happens when you try to PIT the STIG, I.e. an experienced AI.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhwoUxeTWsA&t=330


  8. #8
    GTFREAK's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaXyM View Post
    @GTFFREAK
    I'm not sure is it as hard you say to get effect you described.
    Very often bumping rears makes drivers spin. I know it from our leagues life.
    In real life (referring to police chase) it is not so easy though. You have to hit a car in some specific angle.
    That specific angle is what I am referring to. Maybe I am not making myself clear in my posts. It's not bumping cars in the "rear". It's when you tap them in the rear "fender", not rear bumper. The fender is on the side, and the bumper is on the rear. If your left front "fender" met the other car's right rear "fender", you'd initiate a spin. The rear end would become loose and the car would start to spin out. I'll try and find some videos of what I am talking about.

  9. #9
    GTFREAK's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by beatnik View Post
    I'd say the AI has this issue in rF1 but online against others it is perfectly fine.

    You're probably right. My online driving experience in rF1 was rather short lived I'm afraid. I wouldn't know how easy it is or isn't. But, I'll take your word for it. I just wish the AI would behave this way as well. It just felt as if it took too much effort to spin them out this way. Just didn't seem very realistic. Of course, you shouldn't really be trying to do this, but for experimental purposes I did have a go at it. The results were not what I expected.

  10. #10
    Hutch-SCO's Avatar

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    There is an issue where if you try and crash into the car in front, your cars momentum suddenly turns into a weightlessness causing the car in front to sudenly feels like a brick and bounce of it, where as it should travel forwards with the momentum.

    We use contact mods before anyone mentions you shouldnt be crashing anyway, the contact can be a bit buggy and unpredictable at times and needs to be used in a controled manner to be effective.

    I know what you mean with the nascar games GTFREAK the contact on nascar heat was way better than rfactor is, i'm with you on hoping its a bit more realistic on rf2

  11. #11
    theother5's Avatar

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    ....crash into the car in front, your cars momentum suddenly turns into a weightlessness causing the car in front to sudenly feels like a brick and bounce of it...
    Like, there's a lack of 'cost' to me, for example, if I crash into the car in front on a slow corner fighting for position. I know I can get away with it. It becomes a tactic of it's own.

    I think it's clearly a black flag tactic. If the appropriate damage resulted from such contacts, then I'd loose front grip and speed and perhaps I'd do it less.

    I agree, This is one issue which hopefully will get addressed.

  12. #12
    GTFREAK's Avatar

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    I also agree that the "cost" of a racing incident is not that great in rFactor currently. If I were to be penalized for coming into contact with another race car for purposes of overtaking, or brake lockup that resulted in a collision, I'd be more careful not to do it. I'm hoping that rFactor 2 has some sort of system in place as a deterrent.

  13. #13
    MaXyM's Avatar

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    As I referred in other thread, rF gives possibility to more or less gain serious damage from all collisions. It's still depends on modders which make cars surviving a 200kmph hit into a wall almost without a scratch.
    Don't expect better collision model from rfactor2 until modders change the approach.

  14. #14
    LesiU's Avatar

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    Yup, you can make in rF 1 that car will be dead after collision with wall at 20km/h... or will be in perfect condition after crash test at 300km/h - that is only up to modders.

  15. #15
    GTFREAK's Avatar

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    While I agree that the modders have to enable these things when they release their mods, I'll go one step further and say that if the physics don't allow it in the first place, there's no point.

  16. #16
    LesiU's Avatar

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    There is nothing to "enable"... is just a matter of values you put into damage file. Physics is capable of handling that with no problems.
    What we can talk about, is how simplified or complicated a damage model can be. In rF 1, some things are simplyfied but still, the overall damage model is not that tragic.

  17. #17
    GTFREAK's Avatar

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    By inputting values into the damage file, you are in fact enabling something. You are enabling how much damage the vehicle is going to endure in any specific crash.

  18. #18
    sriltz123's Avatar
     

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    There is an issue where if you try and crash into the car in front, your cars momentum suddenly turns into a weightlessness causing the car in front to sudenly feels like a brick and bounce of it, where as it should travel forwards with the momentum.

  19. #19
    Christian Hamilton's Avatar
     

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    Aug 2011
    In GM2 based sims, the problem that is mentioned (at least with the AI cars) has to due with a line in the hdv file called "AI Torque Stab". If these numbers are too high its impossible to spin out an AI car. But if you lower these numbers you can get the AI cars to have stability like a human driver. But this requires a lot of additional optimization of a lot of other values in the hdv and other files or the AI generally lose stability all over the track. (Not just in regards to collisions) So to raise it artificially high is used kind of as a cheat by the mod creator or ISI to make the AI stable on track without having to do hours upon hours of testing various other AI parameters in the hdv, plr. files etc.

  20. #20
    Lazza's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hutch-SCO View Post
    There is an issue where if you try and crash into the car in front, your cars momentum suddenly turns into a weightlessness causing the car in front to sudenly feels like a brick and bounce of it, where as it should travel forwards with the momentum.
    Quote Originally Posted by sriltz123 View Post
    There is an issue where if you try and crash into the car in front, your cars momentum suddenly turns into a weightlessness causing the car in front to sudenly feels like a brick and bounce of it, where as it should travel forwards with the momentum.
    Not really my business I suppose, but why has a 4 month old thread been dug up with only a copied statement?

    Anyway, AI aside, lag has to have some effect on all collisions. Very difficult to have it realistic and consistent (so that one car doesn't end up fine while the other is disabled), so I think most mods tend to make cars a bit less fragile than you'd aim for in a single-player game.

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