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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Is ISI still working on the tire model ?

  1. #21
    Pob_88's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJones View Post
    I can feel the flat spot's on tyres as vibrations in the steering wheel, especially in F-ISI.

    I also tried the realroad feature, and for me it was truly dynamic. Maybe there where some KI-drivers at the same time on track on your test.

    I use masters quite a bit and there is some vibration immediately after (not much if I am honest, certainly doesn't effect my driving) but after that it feels normal again and the flat spots do simply disappear on there own,try it flat spot then park and watch, them just fade away.. it should have a lasting visual and physical effect over a much longer time period.

    KI? (if u mean ai there were not) the track rubbers in as you drive it which is fine but it seems preset which bit of the track rubbers in, the racing line will get more and more and it will expand out around it at turns especially, but just running your own line down a straight had no affect (i tested this for a lot of laps while practising).

    I do not think these features are bad currently but I just hope they will be built on further.

  2. #22
    MarcG's Avatar

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    from the Knownissues.txt:

    Weather/RealRoad
    ================
    -Groove build-up and track wetness/drying happen at an artificial, accelerated rate. this could explain the "preset" bit

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pob_88 View Post
    I disagree, you can flat spot them at the moment and come to a halt and watch it gradually dissapear. I hope this will be further worked on as mistreating your tyres in such a way should be felt in the FFB heavilly (50 pence piece scenario,obviously depends on car and tyre)

    Also I find it strange how drying lines is fully dynamic yet rubber being laid down is not. I tried running a different line down straight for 10+ laps and nothing, meanwhile the pit entrance which has hardly been used is heavily rubbered in (ppl pressing esc).

    I am really enjoying rf2 and find it very difficult to go back to rf1 as its just doesnt feel as good, but do I hope these couple of things are just work in progress and will develop further!
    The road rubbers in off-line--I've gone into the end of 90 min. practice sessions online, and there's rubber across nearly the whole track (especially in braking zones). 10 laps by one car isn't enough to really make a difference. Think about it, it's the same as if 10 cars did only 1 lap.

    Also, for a general reply to the o.p. and others with the same sentiment--yes, ISI has very much made it known that the sim side isn't finished yet. A few months ago someone from ISI mentioned they were putting some of the stuff they originally had planned to work on on the back burner to take care of the graphics issues that so many people were complaining about. Whether this meant the physics or the packaging system, or something else entirely isn't 100% clear; but I'm quite confident there's much more to come in the sim realm.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by blakboks View Post
    The road rubbers in off-line--I've gone into the end of 90 min. practice sessions online, and there's rubber across nearly the whole track (especially in braking zones). 10 laps by one car isn't enough to really make a difference. Think about it, it's the same as if 10 cars did only 1 lap.
    it was probs 15laps or so and if I did that many on new track there would definatly be some visible rubber down. It does start to appear quite quickly. By end of sessions they do seem to be well covered but not sure if thats so much to do with pre defined way is put down just expanding. cos also I have seen bits of track at mid ohio near a curb which lots of us were driving over but it seemed to be clean.

    Anyway I will test it properly later, fast car, short track, crappy line and will see how it appears.

  5. #25
    blakboks's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pob_88 View Post
    cos also I have seen bits of track at mid ohio near a curb which lots of us were driving over but it seemed to be clean.
    I have not raced Mid-Ohio on rF2 yet, but what you just described sounds like a 'bug' with the track itself. I believe that RealRoad is calculated at the vertices of the mesh. So, what was likely happening was that there was a curb over the track mesh verts at that place. So, no rubber was being laid down at that spot because people were probably hitting the curb (which probably doesn't have RealRoad applied to it). But, yeah, that definitely sounds like a track bug rather than a RealRoad bug.

  6. #26
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    I'm more wondering about the depth at which tires lose grip when they are pushed and the amount of control the driver has whilst skidding and if there are still aspects of the tire model to change that will affect those aspects of driving.

    With the way the tires are now its allot better than RF1 but the lack of feel and control when skidding still remains.

    NKP and i-racing have far more gradual loss and regain of grip when taking corners compared to RF2 , I would best describe all the grippy cars in RF2 as rather "skitish" you can collect the back end but the cars are very unstable when in any sort of slide however large or small that slide is.


    Taking tight corners or corners where you would expect cars to slide a small amount , in RF2 seems to be a case of

    1) under steer with minimal front end grip
    2) snap oversteer
    3) soggy back end slide
    4) slight skid and slide but accentually griped in and maintained through whole corner

    Its almost a binary condition of one of those 4 and the car tends to get stuck in one of those 4 where as in i-racing or NKP its a gental blend of sliding and staying balanced on the grip.

    The current tire model encourages a pre-emptive driving style rather than a reactive one which takes allot of the life and sprit out of driving.

    Obviously if ISI are still working on the tire model its expected for it to have some issues that's why I would like to know.
    Last edited by Jameswesty; 07-04-12 at 03:54 PM.

  7. #27
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    just done over twenty laps of malaysia in fisi, I had the tyre wear set to x7 and made sure I flat spotted them a few times for good measure, the flatspots are not working yet in my opinion, just visual. i know this is work in progress but I'm really looking forward to them vibrating the wheel with more aggression, and the tyre wear being a bit more obvious on the tyre. Ideally it would be brilliant if the flatspot feature could be controlled +/- so that you could control the ferocity of the damage it inflicts on the car through vibration e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFG4mdEVmKQ

  8. #28
    Wawotsch's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pob_88 View Post
    drying lines is fully dynamic yet rubber being laid down is not.
    I parked a Megane at the apex of a corner. After some time the rubber was clearly laid down around the parked car, no traces near the apex where they would have been normally. ISI has done a great job, really.

    But flat spots: no, never felt. In nkPro they can drive me crazy, but currently not in rF2.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion78 View Post
    just done over twenty laps of malaysia in fisi, I had the tyre wear set to x7 and made sure I flat spotted them a few times for good measure, the flatspots are not working yet in my opinion, just visual. i know this is work in progress but I'm really looking forward to them vibrating the wheel with more aggression, and the tyre wear being a bit more obvious on the tyre. Ideally it would be brilliant if the flatspot feature could be controlled +/- so that you could control the ferocity of the damage it inflicts on the car through vibration e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFG4mdEVmKQ
    Flat spots and everything else is nice but until the tires gain and lose grip realistically and with grater depth nothing else really matters.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pob_88 View Post

    Also I find it strange how drying lines is fully dynamic yet rubber being laid down is not.

    Wrong. It is dynamic.


    I doubt anything on rF2 is completely finished. Hence the term beta.

  11. #31
    Guy Moulton's Avatar

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    Is love it if when we got back to the garage in practice e we could see our tires that are taken off. You can learn a lot by just looking at your worn tires.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CdnRacer View Post
    Wrong. It is dynamic.


    I doubt anything on rF2 is completely finished. Hence the term beta.
    Just been testing and I was wrong about this, did alot (too many :P) of laps... my own line did show up eventually on the straight . When braking on random spots they showed up really quickly.

    Weirdly on replays certain bits of track just appeared clean despite not being so while in the car.

    BTW I am not whining that its not done or lack of progress. I was well aware what beta would mean, was just hoping for clarification on whether these would be getting developed. Anyway embarrassingly one point wasn't valid but the flat spots I feel is and hopefully it will be improved.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pob_88 View Post
    Just been testing and I was wrong about this, did alot (too many :P) of laps... my own line did show up eventually on the straight . When braking on random spots they showed up really quickly.

    Weirdly on replays certain bits of track just appeared clean despite not being so while in the car.

    BTW I am not whining that its not done or lack of progress. I was well aware what beta would mean, was just hoping for clarification on whether these would be getting developed. Anyway embarrassingly one point wasn't valid but the flat spots I feel is and hopefully it will be improved.


    The tires dont' lay down much rubber on the straights. You'll see the most rubber in heavy braking zones and high speed turns.

  14. #34
    coops's Avatar

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    cant wait for this to be fully implemented it will change the way were driving in the game now. sick to death of seeing every1 drive like its still rf1. this to me will be the key factor to the game, show how really good of a car setup and driver you really are.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wawotsch View Post
    IIn nkPro they can drive me crazy,
    LOL.........

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jameswesty View Post
    NKP and i-racing have far more gradual loss and regain of grip when taking corners compared to RF2 , I would best describe all the grippy cars in RF2 as rather "skitish" you can collect the back end but the cars are very unstable when in any sort of slide however large or small that slide is.
    True, but imho it's mainly a reflection of the tyre model being unfinished. For example I can drive 10 laps in the Nissan GT-R, go hard, but as long as I don't slide or do burnouts/wheelspins the rear tyres will stay around 40-50 degrees, so there's still something missing in the heating up mechanics (that or the temperatures are measured in an odd way).

    Two other things that would cause differences: In just about every car you need to lower down the camber severely, or you'll end up having a heat spread of 20-30 degrees between the inner and the outer edges of the tyres, meaning the outer edge is almost never touching the ground, meaning you have very little tyre on the road. Secondly the cars lose grip much more gradually and logically after the track is rubbered in. On green track the slides are much more sudden. nKP and iRacin don't have this feature, their tracks are static, and aren't tuned to represent a totally fresh track. So you have to rubber in the track in rF2 before you can really do comparisons.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jubuttib View Post
    True, but imho it's mainly a reflection of the tyre model being unfinished. For example I can drive 10 laps in the Nissan GT-R, go hard, but as long as I don't slide or do burnouts/wheelspins the rear tyres will stay around 40-50 degrees, so there's still something missing in the heating up mechanics (that or the temperatures are measured in an odd way).

    Two other things that would cause differences: In just about every car you need to lower down the camber severely, or you'll end up having a heat spread of 20-30 degrees between the inner and the outer edges of the tyres, meaning the outer edge is almost never touching the ground, meaning you have very little tyre on the road. Secondly the cars lose grip much more gradually and logically after the track is rubbered in. On green track the slides are much more sudden. nKP and iRacin don't have this feature, their tracks are static, and aren't tuned to represent a totally fresh track. So you have to rubber in the track in rF2 before you can really do comparisons.
    T hats why I made this forum post I REALLY hope the tire model and physics are still in early development.

    Evan when the tires and track are at the best in RF2 the cars don't feel like they belong to the road compared to NKP and evan i-racing.

    last week I thought I would reinstall NKP to compare it to RF2 having not played it in a long time and having spent over 30 hours with RF2 , suffice to say NKP is on another level to RF2.

    In NKP The tires feel like rubber they have a gradual give to them , I can make out the lap by lap ware on the tires and the change in grip , the FFB communicates EXACTLY what the car will do , you can slide the cars if you want to ( at a detriment to your lap time) , the car wants to point in the direction of momentum far more than the cars in RF2 do , You can drive using the throtel and counter steer out of corners EXACTLY like you can in a real car with the cars far more willing to do this than in RF2.

    I don't see how anyone could play NKP and then think the way the tires lose and gain grip in RF2 is acceptable , or how the cars in RF2 sometimes seem to almost pivot on a central shopping trolley wheel ( just like the cars in RF1 do under fine balancing situations).

    Sure NKP has some issues as well and the dynamic track , weather and other features of RF2 are REALLY cool and will add allot to racing but those features are 100% useless if the core handling of the cars is week. ( excusing the 1960s cars though I bet they would be better if the tire model worked more like NKP's)

    RF2 seems to be trying to run before it can walk ( I hope so much its just a case that the tire model and physics are still heavily under development )


    I'm willing to do laps with anyone in both NKP and RF2 and describe and show them exactly what is wrong with RF2 as I say playing NKP then going into RF2 is so depressing in many ways I wish I hadn't done it as I was quite happy racing RF2 on-line now RF2 just feels bland and sole less ( still got the 60s cars though )

    Of course I could be totally wrong , Who knows maybe drinking 6+ pints of tea a day affects the way you perceive driving sim's
    Last edited by Jameswesty; 07-05-12 at 12:24 AM.

  18. #38
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    James

    I don't see anywhere,where ISI has said the tyre model and Physics is finnished,so perhaps it might be
    worth waiting until then,before you make any conclusions.

    please don't take offence to what i have said,i've read many of your posts,and found them quite interesting.
    Last edited by privatebrian; 07-05-12 at 12:56 AM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jameswesty View Post
    T hats why I made this forum post I REALLY hope the tire model and physics are still in early development.
    Well they're obviously not in EARLY development, they have done a heck of a lot of good work already, but they're by no means finished yet either. =)

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kknorpp001 View Post
    +1

    I tried netkar pro for the first time recently and now have very hard time going back to rf2. Hopefully, there are surprises in store but I doubt it because why would ISI waste time getting beta feedback on something that will change...

    It's absolutely absurd to think the physics and tire model are still a WIP. Heck, it's beta and all that stuff is completely finished and will never be touched again. Look at netkar like you just mentioned. Kunos never updated the tire model or physics after initial release nor has iracing. The physics in racing simulations are usually completed in the first week of development. Now a title from EA or codemasters are always getting physics updates. Those developers are exceptional and are known for their realistic physics. True story bro.

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