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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Head shake

  1. #21
    Max Angelo's Avatar

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    I never ran at 300kmh in a heavy and high frequency bumpy surface, but i am not so sure the human eye is designed for a static view in such extreme conditions, furthermore the subject of eye behaviour looks in this thread a personal experience and perception

    I agree with you in real life your brain, inner ear etc etc to things to compensate for all this I agree, but honestly after having raced tons of laps in FF1600 and FF2000 and a limited test of an open cockpit prototype car trust me in saying that if you want the most realistic experience, if your training for real life and need to prepare yourself to the SUPER VISCERAL experience of this stuff, then I would keep it on, or just slightly decrease it.
    I've experienced plenty of g-forces on track and as a flight test mechanic. In either case your head does not "bobble" all over the place.
    Please get someone to take you out on a race track sometime to experience it for yourselves. There is no wild shaking up and down.'
    I was only pointing about the rough surface and the extreme conditions of the banked turns at Monza.

  2. #22
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    Last edited by Andreas67; 06-19-12 at 02:26 AM.

  3. #23
    100mph's Avatar

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    I am really confused by all this... I like some of the shaking but I find that the default view set by ISI is making me feel very sick & nauseas after about 4 or 5 laps.

    Modding the .plr file and tinkering about for me is tedious and I just dont have the time. I wanna jump in and race around enjoying myself.

    With that in mind is it possible to kindly request ISI to program something into the options menu that addresses this exact issue ?

    Maybe some sort of direct access to those values mentioned above that need to be edited ?

    Great game and the authenticity of Monza is just breathtaking ... Keep up the excellent work guys !

  4. #24
    Andreas67's Avatar

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    I want a switch for the world movement.
    Less is more.
    I also do not like the shaking camera in replay, when the car passes by. Please, no annoying effects.

    In Rfactor 1 and 2 , the camera is fixed point, the cockpit, and everything else moves.

    This is not good. The car is moving, not the environment.

    (Orientation rate)


    The Brabham is great.
    Last edited by Andreas67; 06-19-12 at 02:15 AM.

  5. #25
    osella's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 100mph View Post
    Modding the .plr file and tinkering about for me is tedious and I just dont have the time. I wanna jump in and race around enjoying myself.

    With that in mind is it possible to kindly request ISI to program something into the options menu that addresses this exact issue ?
    Yes please! There should be an ingame slider that directly changes those vibration coefficients. Keep those default values, why not, some people like them, but I turned them down by some 70%...

  6. #26
    Spinelli's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by argo0 View Post
    Yes Jim, thats on 0 as well.

    Incidentally, this was posted elsewhere in the forum -

    'I'll say this again: Gs or gravitational forces do NOT equate to head bobble in real life terms. Can we PLEASE understand that for the hundredth time.
    I've experienced plenty of g-forces on track and as a flight test mechanic. In either case your head does not "bobble" all over the place.
    Please get someone to take you out on a race track sometime to experience it for yourselves. There is no wild shaking up and down.'

    and

    'As you stated earlier, the inner ear in combination with the brain and optic nerve 'dampens' out those pulses.
    You'd have to be driving on a 'heavily-lined' cobblestone track to get anywhere near the frequency I'm seeing with most sims.'




    It should be noted that 'real race car experience' does not seem to produce a uniform opinion.

    I would also find it regrettable if my opinions were viewed as 'complaints'.

    Anyway, I've decided that the Real Head Motion plugin is probably the 'vision simulator' that I am most comfortable with and I'd welcome anyones opinion on the subject whatever their previous experiences.
    It doesnt come fromt he g forces, its from all the vibrations, all the bumps, all the head buffetting etc etc etc, but you guys are right Im wrong

  7. #27
    osella's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Angelo View Post
    I never ran at 300kmh in a heavy and high frequency bumpy surface, but i am not so sure the human eye is designed for a static view in such extreme conditions, furthermore the subject of eye behavior looks in this thread a personal experience and perception
    I didn't sit in such condition either but I do believe even then the view will be nothing like this extreme shaking. One of the problems is that our eye sight works in a very complicated way. I believe that when drivers sat in those cars at Monza and concentrated on just one point in front of them, they could view it very well. All the shaking was on the "outside edges" of the view. In rf2, every single part shakes with the same intensity like there is a massive earthquake.
    Last edited by osella; 06-19-12 at 05:52 AM.

  8. #28
    argo0's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinelli View Post
    It doesnt come fromt he g forces, its from all the vibrations, all the bumps, all the head buffetting etc etc etc, but you guys are right Im wrong
    No, we all know its from the bumps obviously, I merely included the quotes (that were also addressing G forces) because of the relevant bits 'no wild shaking up and down' and 'You'd have to be driving on a 'heavily-lined' cobblestone track to get anywhere near the frequency I'm seeing with most sims.'
    These quotes illustrate that real race car experience can produce a different opinion to yours. Sorry to repeat myself, thought I'd been fairly clear.
    So once more, for anyone still unsure what I'm saying,

    Monza banking is very bumpy. This would produce a violent shaking of the car. It would produce some shaking to our vision. I'm just not sure it would be so pronounced. And people with real race car experience have differing views on the subject. Quite simple.
    Last edited by argo0; 06-19-12 at 06:11 AM. Reason: clarity

  9. #29
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    @Osella, @argo0

    100 percent approval !!!!!!!!!
    the car may shake a little,( Motor, G-force, Street bumps ...) but the environment must not
    vibrate,--maybe a very little bit of grass or cobblestone.

    rfactor2 is even not a Acarde Game.

    Monza/Brabham are very nice. fantastic!! Thank You.
    Last edited by Andreas67; 06-19-12 at 06:26 AM.

  10. #30
    osella's Avatar

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    From the Grand Prix movie:

    "The banking?
    Well, it's just so damn rough up there, that the car flicks all over the place.
    We're never below 180 [mph], you know.
    At that speed, your reactions can barely keep up with these sudden changes in direction.
    The trouble is, the high centrifugal forces push the car into the banking and use up all the suspension movement.
    So what you're driving becomes a car with no springs.
    It feels like you're getting a series of punches in the back.
    I hate it. I'm sick of pain.
    But it's what the car is suffering that really worries me.
    Because no matter how the car is set up, it bottoms out at several places on both bankings.
    The underside of the car just comes crashing down onto the biggest bumps.
    Everything's shaking and banging all the time.
    Sometimes you could swear the whole thing's falling to bits"

    From that we can see it was a terrifying experience and that this 60s mod has very believable behaviour on the banking.. the shaking of the whole car and steering wheel (thus our FF) should be extreme, but I still don't think it applies to our view as well..

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by osella View Post
    From the Grand Prix movie:

    "The banking?
    Well, it's just so damn rough up there, that the car flicks all over the place.
    We're never below 180 [mph], you know.
    At that speed, your reactions can barely keep up with these sudden changes in direction.
    The trouble is, the high centrifugal forces push the car into the banking and use up all the suspension movement.
    So what you're driving becomes a car with no springs.
    It feels like you're getting a series of punches in the back.
    I hate it. I'm sick of pain.
    But it's what the car is suffering that really worries me.
    Because no matter how the car is set up, it bottoms out at several places on both bankings.
    The underside of the car just comes crashing down onto the biggest bumps.
    Everything's shaking and banging all the time.
    Sometimes you could swear the whole thing's falling to bits"

    From that we can see it was a terrifying experience and that this 60s mod has very believable behaviour on the banking.. the shaking of the whole car and steering wheel (thus our FF) should be extreme, but I still don't think it applies to our view as well..

    I like: D

  12. #32
    mikeyk1985's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by osella View Post
    It does give a lot of shake but your view doesn't shake in real life. As was already mentioned, our eyes and brain make up for it so your view is pretty much static.
    Exactly, the view we see in the sim is SUPPOSED to be our eyes, not a camera, therefore no shake should be visible.

  13. #33
    TechAde's Avatar

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    If the eyes/inner ear/whatever can 'remove' all the shake why do modern F1 drivers complain that when they badly flat-spot a tyre the vibration is so bad that they can't see a thing?

  14. #34
    osella's Avatar

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    Can you give link TechAde?

  15. #35
    Rich Goodwin's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechAde View Post
    If the eyes/inner ear/whatever can 'remove' all the shake why do modern F1 drivers complain that when they badly flat-spot a tyre the vibration is so bad that they can't see a thing?
    The only way I can relate to this is from motorbikes. Wind buffeting is terrible, I don't see how it is different in a car. My head shook around and my "inner ear" or whatever certainly did not fix it. I don't get what you guys are on about tbh....


    Quote Originally Posted by osella View Post
    Can you give link TechAde?
    Martin Brundle says it almost EVERY single F1 race when a driver flat spots a tire, Being an ex F1 driver, I'll take his word.

    Also last race, I believe Massa, complained of vibrations after flat spotting and not being able to see down the straight over team radio.

  16. #36
    osella's Avatar

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    Sure, flat spotting causes strong vibrations and destroys the handling. But I can't remember anything about not being able to see.


    The point is, there are people who simply hate those default vibrations ISI set up. So it would be good if we could change it ingame, as some people dont want to bother with configuration files.

  17. #37
    Rich Goodwin's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by osella View Post
    Sure, flat spotting causes strong vibrations and destroys the handling. But I can't remember anything about not being able to see.
    Well, I personally wouldn't know. But like I said, Martin Brundle constantly says "That will be terrible. His car will drive horrendously until he pit's." He even went so far as to say he thought it would be VERY difficult to see the final chicane in Canada due to all of the vibrations. I'm only repeating what he says as I have never driven an F1 car....

    Below is a video of Michael Schumacher talking about a bad flat spot(From 3:18)



    Though I do agree the options for these should be in game as a matter of personal preference. I personally enjoy it though as I feel more "IN" the game due to it.
    Last edited by Rich Goodwin; 06-19-12 at 03:38 PM.

  18. #38
    osella's Avatar

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    Interesting, that convinced me a bit more .

  19. #39
    Rich Goodwin's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by osella View Post
    Interesting, that convinced me a bit more .
    I am not saying anyone is wrong.....just, If Schumacher had vibrations bad enough to effect vision in 2003.....I am fairly sure it had an effect in the 60's on old spa......

  20. #40
    osella's Avatar

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    Perhaps theres just no right/wrong and what would one driver describe as "hardly being able to see", another wouldn't.. although Schumacher is a great driver and if he had difficulties seeing.. uh I don't know.

    I still didn't like default rf2 setting .

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