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Thread: rFactor Better FFB Tutorial

  1. #21
    LesiU's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Where I race Modding Group: SimRacingPL 

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    Thanks. Yes, locking the tyres will show if FFB is ok but that's not the problem (I already have that). I'm missing feeling of grip changes when you work your way through a corner and doing corrections with steering wheel. I just don't feel what's happening with front tyres at that moment.

  2. #22
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

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    Can you tell me which mod your trying with now? The tires loosing grip involves alot of good suspension and tire modeling from the mod maker. Try this mod. It was designed for use with a leo's and realfeel combo from the start. http://www.mediafire.com/?pzbkn2bzokl2q2a

    NOTE it comes with settings files for leos and realfeel. Do not over-write my settings just yet. Just try the car first

  3. #23
    MaXyM's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Facebook profile @@MaXyM_SRPL 

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    Yeah.. a lot of mods are tweaked to get better results on RFFB. Mostly by changing suspension geometry way off from reality
    Question is how to get behaviour of rffb better with suspension geometry taken 1:1 from real world.

  4. #24
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaXyM View Post
    Question is how to get behavior of rffb better with suspension geometry taken 1:1 from real world.
    The Shift2 people claimed 1:1 suspension geometry. Look how that FFB worked out. I don't think rFactor1 contains enough information in the area of physics to reproduce exactly what is felt on a real car. It would require someone as anal as me doing weeks of testing with several cars and dozens of sensors and a fully mechanized steering assembly precisely measuring the force opposing the exact force being placed upon the steering wheel in many many driving scenario's and under different speeds and track conditions. Once all that was known the same scenario's could be played out in-game and the findings could be used used to force a modern wheel to react the same or as close as possible due to hardware limitations on reaction and force.

  5. #25
    MaXyM's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Facebook profile @@MaXyM_SRPL 

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    I do realy not have idea what you have wanted to say.

  6. #26
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

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    In short, You may never get 100% real force with rF1 and current hardware.

  7. #27
    MaXyM's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Facebook profile @@MaXyM_SRPL 

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    I'm not talking about getting 100% real force. I'm talking about getting the best result without need to tweak suspension geometry in unreal way.
    In other words, Lesiu's and my question is: how to set up FF for RealFeel to "read" front wheels grip, in case of mod with suspension reproduced as best as possible.

  8. #28
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

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    Well real-feel reads only suspension forces and leo's only reads tyre forces. That is why they are here together. As far as wanting to model accurately it may just be a case of the ends justify the means. If modeling the suspension correctly means you cannot receive realistic force then there is no point in it.

    Most likely you would have to work backward. Model the suspension to best suit the FFB forces you are trying to achieve then tweak the geometry toward realism. It isn't the best system but these are the limitations of rF1.

  9. #29
    MaXyM's Avatar

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    Maybe because car simulation is more important than FF effects
    But I'm sure there are a lot of people who doesn't car that what they driving and if car behaves on a road similar to real one or not. So why to use simulations?

  10. #30
    gosmart's Avatar
     

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    Aug 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeosPantera View Post

    For all the Fanatec users, remove the PorscheWheelPlugin.dll from your plugins folder as it interferes with this!
    Hi ZeosPantera!

    Which driver and wheel settings do you propose for Fanatec wheel? There are a few screenshots how to setup Logitech (damper, spring etc).
    I tried many different stuff, but no progress. There are quite a few things to be set up on the wheel itself.

    Whatever I do, Fanatec feels sluggish and spongy (compared to Logitech).

  11. #31
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by gosmart View Post
    Whatever I do, Fanatec feels sluggish and spongy (compared to Logitech).
    Likely due to the belt system the fanatec employs. Had a friend go from a G27 to several fanatecs then back to an arc mod G27. He hates belt drives for the reasons you describe. Best I can advise is play with its settings as much as you can.

  12. #32
    gosmart's Avatar
     

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    Aug 2011
    Thanks. I managed to get to some setting which is acceptable. I forgot to write it down, but I will post it later here if someone wanted to save some time.

    I have noticed that wheel becomes softer with speed. Same with Logitech, but not so noticable (probably because of larger diameter of Fanatec).
    Which setting should I change? I tried with speed sensitivity in the game, but there was no difference.

  13. #33
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

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    You want to leave speed sensitivity to 0. That will only make things worse. The issue sounds to be something to do with the mod. How many are you feeling this with and what are they?

  14. #34
    gosmart's Avatar
     

    Newer Member
    Aug 2011
    Clio Cup (FRracers), F1 FSONE2009, HRC

    I will test more today afternoon.

    BTW, if something changes in controller setting within the game, how does it affect controller.ini changes that you proposed?

    Can I use saved configurations (I have both G27 and Fanatec) or is it better to have batch file that would set it before starting the game?

  15. #35
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

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    you may need to modify each setup separately like you have and then combining it with my adjustments. Not sure what is changed so really cant say.

  16. #36
    gosmart's Avatar
     

    Newer Member
    Aug 2011
    Hm, I was initially changing controller files that rfactor created. When I modified controller.ini directly, it was much better.

    I am very pleased with with the outcome.

    I have tested FSONE 2009, BRKart, Porsche Enduracers and Clio Cup frracers with both G27 and Fanatec.

    Kart and formula were both good. For Clio and Porsche I had to increase toe in to maximum to have some good force on the wheel.

    Logitech has a much greater force and rougher feeling than Fanatec. I thought maybe because of wheel diameter, but it's only 1-2 cm difference.

    Unfortunately, I can't compare with a real cars. This way Logitech seems more fun.

  17. #37
    SPASKIS's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Where I race Modding Group: Euskotracks 

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    Hi Zeos!
    I have read your post and I have found it really interesting. It is the reason why I have joined isiforums. I always have a hard time trying to setup the FFB in my DFP logitech wheel. For me it is very important to have a good feeling to enjoy and to be competitive in Rfactor.

    I have tried your settings but I think I need to do some extra adjustments basically because I use a smaller steering angle (about 400). I am currently playing Game Stock Car mod with the Chevrolet. I would like to ask you some questions to help me understand how to adjust it to my preferences. I would reaaly appreciate your help.

    - When adjusting Leo FFB, do I have to use the same steering lock angle that I use in the car setup? If not, how do I configure it?
    - What steering lock angle vs steering angle do you recommend?
    - In controller.ini there is the parameter Steering Wheel Range. Is it necessary to put the same figure as in Logitech profiler? If different what does it do?
    - If I want to increase/decrease intensity should I do it with RFP settings, with Rfactor FFb setting or with Logitec profiler? why?
    - Do RFP and Leo effects combine with Rfactor FFB settings or do they override them? I understand they combine (at least partially) since you provide controller.ini file parameters as well. However, this is confusing for me because it means that RFP will be real or unreal depending as well on Rfactor FFB settings. One example is FFB steer force input max. It appears in both Rfactor settings (controller.ini) and in RFP.ini settings. In your files both are set to the same value of 65536. Which one is used or how do they combine? If so I really don't understand what RFP does that cannot be achieved with Rfactor parameters. Furthermore, I would say that in case they combine, RFP should reccomend Rfactor setting values to be a good tool.
    - I have read in other posts that FFB effects level should be in low (1) because when in full (4), as in your controller.ini file, the rumble, vibrations and so are artificial. The reason for so is that in rfactor modern tracks, bumbs, rumble and so ever are modelled in the track with real shapes so the FFB is calculated with normal physics.
    What is your opinion?
    - In your LeoFFb.ini there are 4 settings with 0. Intensity, caster, aligning moment and camber ratio. Why? Can they be changed?
    - in controller.ini Gain is set to 1 but FFB steer force output max is set to 0. Why this 0?

    I probably could be writing down questions until tomorrow but for sure then you would not reply to my post :-)

    Thanks a lot in advance
    Last edited by SPASKIS; 09-07-11 at 05:02 PM.

  18. #38
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

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    - When adjusting Leo FFB, do I have to use the same steering lock angle that I use in the car setup? If not, how do I configure it?

    The fist line in leo's you can just average the steering lock you use on most cars. I use from 10-24 so I set my first line leo's to 22.

    - What steering lock angle vs steering angle do you recommend?

    If you have a 900 wheel and you don't use it all your wasting alot of its potential. That said you can usually raise the in-game steering lock higher to compensate and lower it as you feel more comfortable. If you are actually trying to match the real life steering lock of a car then adjust to it but you will need to change it per mod which I find far too annoying to deal with.

    - In controller.ini there is the parameter Steering Wheel Range. Is it necessary to put the same figure as in Logitech profiler? If different what does it do?

    That is just for the in-game in-cockpit animation so it matches what your wheels steering lock is in replays. It really shouldn't matter and your in-Game steering wheel should be off.

    - If I want to increase/decrease intensity should I do it with RFP settings, with Rfactor FFb setting or with Logitec profiler? why?

    Logitech profiler should remain at 100%, rFactor should remain at 100%, all the adjustment of force should be through the realfeel hotkeys on the numpad. Why? because..

    - Do RFP and Leo effects combine with Rfactor FFB settings or do they override them? I understand they combine (at least partially) since you provide controller.ini file parameters as well. However, this is confusing for me because it means that RFP will be real or unreal depending as well on Rfactor FFB settings. One example is FFB steer force input max. It appears in both Rfactor settings (controller.ini) and in RFP.ini settings. In your files both are set to the same value of 65536. Which one is used or how do they combine? If so I really don't understand what RFP does that cannot be achieved with Rfactor parameters. Furthermore, I would say that in case they combine, RFP should recommend Rfactor setting values to be a good tool.

    The edits to the controller.ini essentially disable the rfactor default FFB.. The "FFB steer force output max="0.00000" sees to that. All that remains is the rumble strip effects that play when a track isn't modeled correctly.. Normally with only realfeel installed the MIX options would allow the standard rF-FFB to come through. But since this setup uses Realfeel and leos we don't want any of the standard FFB. Disabling the rF-FFB means the realfeel mix now lets the leo's FFB through. Running 90% realfeel mix usually is enough to get the sensations leo's adds.

    - I have read in other posts that FFB effects level should be in low (1) because when in full (4), as in your controller.ini file, the rumble, vibrations and so are artificial. The reason for so is that in rfactor modern tracks, bumbs, rumble and so ever are modelled in the track with real shapes so the FFB is calculated with normal physics.
    What is your opinion?


    The reason it stays on high is to allow the artificial rumblestip effects to work as all effects are removed on low. It is kept on high and the other effects (throttle, brake) are turned off manually in the file. Most newer tracks do have the rumble-strips modeled but the older ones dont and you can adjust how much of an extra kick the rumble strips have within that file since realfeel can translate very weak strips.

    - In your LeoFFb.ini there are 4 settings with 0. Intensity, caster, aligning moment and camber ratio. Why? Can they be changed?

    The leo's is suppose to be changed completely out for every single car used. It never adopted the same database format that realfeel has. Leaving the settings at 0 makes it a more universal feel. Also the leo's effects are really what I am getting. Bumps and traction loss.

    - in controller.ini Gain is set to 1 but FFB steer force output max is set to 0. Why this 0?

    As answered above. The rF-ffb is completely disabled but the gain still effects the other mods use of FFB. Setting the gain to 0 would mean no FFB regardless of the plugin used and their settings.

    I should note that since realfeel has been updated recently (sort of) that using the pack at the beginning post is a bit outdated..

    Instead try this one. http://www.mediafire.com/?tl56kdbk4yi52q6 (mediafire is a bit broken you may need to wait a bit)

    Make sure to remove everything else, both old leo's, both old realfeel ini and dll from both plugins and the rfactor root. The Controller.ini doesn't really change with the updates.

  19. #39
    CdnRacer's Avatar

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    I always thought rF didnt' support a 900 degree wheel.

  20. #40
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by CdnRacer View Post
    I always thought rF didnt' support a 900 degree wheel.
    It will support any rotation you give it in any bit-depth. The interior steering wheel animation is defaulted to 270 which just makes it look funny if the wheel is on.

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