rFactor Better FFB Tutorial

[LesiU]

ZeosPantera, which mod you would propose as the best to show what your settings can provide in terms of feeling? I'm mostly interested in what's happening with front tyres through a corner.

RealFeel is great for feeling what's happening with the car in general but totally sucks about front tyre grip. Standard FF (and modified in many ways of course) can provide some info about that, but overall doesn't feel realistic.
I tried your combination in a mod (won't tell which one, because that doesn't matter at the moment) and I still doesn't get any useful info about front tyre grip.

So, which mod I shoud try with your settings? Thanks.

[ZeosPantera]

HistorX in general is good with this mod, but individual cars in the pack are better then others. I like the 65 vette and austin mini as stark contrasts. If set up right the vette should feel very loose due to good modelling of tall bias ply tires but with a strong return to center when the caster is raised. The mini should have the odd effect of losing all ffb centering when on the power due to the front wheel drive pulling forward. When you let off the gas for corners the centering returns like a normal car.

Another mod I enjoy testing with is the Lotus23b mod. You can actual feel how light the car is in the FFB. It is the only mod I have driven that you can feel the errors in the road on Coast Track where the curves aren't smoothed and road sections have a ridge separating them.

Bathurst Legends 71' are also very responsive to the point that the FFB mass that usually sits around 2000 in mods with this setup has to be raised to 6000+ to soften the effects.

Best way to test if you are feeling front grip is to lock up your front tires a bit under braking through a turn. The FFB should immediately disappear and return as the tires return to traction.

[ZeosPantera]

HistorX in general is good with this mod, but individual cars in the pack are better then others. I like the 65 vette and austin mini as stark contrasts. If set up right the vette should feel very loose due to good modelling of tall bias ply tires but with a strong return to center when the caster is raised. The mini should have the odd effect of losing all ffb centering when on the power due to the front wheel drive pulling forward. When you let off the gas for corners the centering returns like a normal car.

Another mod I enjoy testing with is the Lotus23b mod. You can actual feel how light the car is in the FFB. It is the only mod I have driven that you can feel the errors in the road on Coast Track where the curves aren't smoothed and road sections have a ridge separating them.

Bathurst Legends 71' are also very responsive to the point that the FFB mass that usually sits around 2000 in mods with this setup has to be raised to 6000+ to soften the effects.

Best way to test if you are feeling front grip is to lock up your front tires a bit under braking through a turn. The FFB should immediately disappear and return as the tires return to traction.

[LesiU]

Thanks. Yes, locking the tyres will show if FFB is ok but that's not the problem (I already have that). I'm missing feeling of grip changes when you work your way through a corner and doing corrections with steering wheel. I just don't feel what's happening with front tyres at that moment.

[ZeosPantera]

Can you tell me which mod your trying with now? The tires loosing grip involves alot of good suspension and tire modeling from the mod maker. Try this mod. It was designed for use with a leo's and realfeel combo from the start. http://www.mediafire.com/?pzbkn2bzokl2q2a

NOTE it comes with settings files for leos and realfeel. Do not over-write my settings just yet. Just try the car first

[MaXyM]

Yeah.. a lot of mods are tweaked to get better results on RFFB. Mostly by changing suspension geometry way off from reality
Question is how to get behaviour of rffb better with suspension geometry taken 1:1 from real world.

[ZeosPantera]

Question is how to get behavior of rffb better with suspension geometry taken 1:1 from real world.

The Shift2 people claimed 1:1 suspension geometry. Look how that FFB worked out. I don't think rFactor1 contains enough information in the area of physics to reproduce exactly what is felt on a real car. It would require someone as anal as me doing weeks of testing with several cars and dozens of sensors and a fully mechanized steering assembly precisely measuring the force opposing the exact force being placed upon the steering wheel in many many driving scenario's and under different speeds and track conditions. Once all that was known the same scenario's could be played out in-game and the findings could be used used to force a modern wheel to react the same or as close as possible due to hardware limitations on reaction and force.

[MaXyM]

I do realy not have idea what you have wanted to say.

[ZeosPantera]

In short, You may never get 100% real force with rF1 and current hardware.

[MaXyM]

I'm not talking about getting 100% real force. I'm talking about getting the best result without need to tweak suspension geometry in unreal way.
In other words, Lesiu's and my question is: how to set up FF for RealFeel to "read" front wheels grip, in case of mod with suspension reproduced as best as possible.

[ZeosPantera]

Well real-feel reads only suspension forces and leo's only reads tyre forces. That is why they are here together. As far as wanting to model accurately it may just be a case of the ends justify the means. If modeling the suspension correctly means you cannot receive realistic force then there is no point in it.

Most likely you would have to work backward. Model the suspension to best suit the FFB forces you are trying to achieve then tweak the geometry toward realism. It isn't the best system but these are the limitations of rF1.

[MaXyM]

Maybe because car simulation is more important than FF effects
But I'm sure there are a lot of people who doesn't car that what they driving and if car behaves on a road similar to real one or not. So why to use simulations?

[gosmart]

For all the Fanatec users, remove the PorscheWheelPlugin.dll from your plugins folder as it interferes with this!

Hi ZeosPantera!

Which driver and wheel settings do you propose for Fanatec wheel? There are a few screenshots how to setup Logitech (damper, spring etc).
I tried many different stuff, but no progress. There are quite a few things to be set up on the wheel itself.

Whatever I do, Fanatec feels sluggish and spongy (compared to Logitech).

[ZeosPantera]

Whatever I do, Fanatec feels sluggish and spongy (compared to Logitech).

Likely due to the belt system the fanatec employs. Had a friend go from a G27 to several fanatecs then back to an arc mod G27. He hates belt drives for the reasons you describe. Best I can advise is play with its settings as much as you can.

[gosmart]

Thanks. I managed to get to some setting which is acceptable. I forgot to write it down, but I will post it later here if someone wanted to save some time.

I have noticed that wheel becomes softer with speed. Same with Logitech, but not so noticable (probably because of larger diameter of Fanatec).
Which setting should I change? I tried with speed sensitivity in the game, but there was no difference.

[ZeosPantera]

You want to leave speed sensitivity to 0. That will only make things worse. The issue sounds to be something to do with the mod. How many are you feeling this with and what are they?

[gosmart]

Clio Cup (FRracers), F1 FSONE2009, HRC

I will test more today afternoon.

BTW, if something changes in controller setting within the game, how does it affect controller.ini changes that you proposed?

Can I use saved configurations (I have both G27 and Fanatec) or is it better to have batch file that would set it before starting the game?

[ZeosPantera]

you may need to modify each setup separately like you have and then combining it with my adjustments. Not sure what is changed so really cant say.

[gosmart]

Hm, I was initially changing controller files that rfactor created. When I modified controller.ini directly, it was much better.

I am very pleased with with the outcome.

I have tested FSONE 2009, BRKart, Porsche Enduracers and Clio Cup frracers with both G27 and Fanatec.

Kart and formula were both good. For Clio and Porsche I had to increase toe in to maximum to have some good force on the wheel.

Logitech has a much greater force and rougher feeling than Fanatec. I thought maybe because of wheel diameter, but it's only 1-2 cm difference.

Unfortunately, I can't compare with a real cars. This way Logitech seems more fun.

[SPASKIS]

Hi Zeos!
I have read your post and I have found it really interesting. It is the reason why I have joined isiforums. I always have a hard time trying to setup the FFB in my DFP logitech wheel. For me it is very important to have a good feeling to enjoy and to be competitive in Rfactor.

I have tried your settings but I think I need to do some extra adjustments basically because I use a smaller steering angle (about 400º). I am currently playing Game Stock Car mod with the Chevrolet. I would like to ask you some questions to help me understand how to adjust it to my preferences. I would reaaly appreciate your help.

- When adjusting Leo FFB, do I have to use the same steering lock angle that I use in the car setup? If not, how do I configure it?
- What steering lock angle vs steering angle do you recommend?
- In controller.ini there is the parameter Steering Wheel Range. Is it necessary to put the same figure as in Logitech profiler? If different what does it do?
- If I want to increase/decrease intensity should I do it with RFP settings, with Rfactor FFb setting or with Logitec profiler? why?
- Do RFP and Leo effects combine with Rfactor FFB settings or do they override them? I understand they combine (at least partially) since you provide controller.ini file parameters as well. However, this is confusing for me because it means that RFP will be real or unreal depending as well on Rfactor FFB settings. One example is FFB steer force input max. It appears in both Rfactor settings (controller.ini) and in RFP.ini settings. In your files both are set to the same value of 65536. Which one is used or how do they combine? If so I really don't understand what RFP does that cannot be achieved with Rfactor parameters. Furthermore, I would say that in case they combine, RFP should reccomend Rfactor setting values to be a good tool.
- I have read in other posts that FFB effects level should be in low (1) because when in full (4), as in your controller.ini file, the rumble, vibrations and so are artificial. The reason for so is that in rfactor modern tracks, bumbs, rumble and so ever are modelled in the track with real shapes so the FFB is calculated with normal physics.
What is your opinion?
- In your LeoFFb.ini there are 4 settings with 0. Intensity, caster, aligning moment and camber ratio. Why? Can they be changed?
- in controller.ini Gain is set to 1 but FFB steer force output max is set to 0. Why this 0?

I probably could be writing down questions until tomorrow but for sure then you would not reply to my post :-)

Thanks a lot in advance