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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Next Update.....?

  1. #101
    corsa's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jubuttib View Post
    If it is indeed a standard industry definition, it's one that almost no company really follows.
    Indeed. As an Apple developer, the beta iOS and Mac OS X releases we developers get always have release notes pointing out features that aren't implemented yet, and they usually note what specific features we should try and test in each particular build.

  2.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #102
    Tim Wheatley's Avatar ISI Staff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Millard View Post
    Tim...?Tim?... I love this place!
    Your tattooist missed an arm.

  3.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #103
    Tim Wheatley's Avatar ISI Staff

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMachucaA View Post
    To be completely honest here......

    It was a bit misleading marketing it as a Beta. The standard dev industry definition for software that is labeled as a "beta", means that ALL features are there AND functional, from GFX to UI to Physics etc, this envelops the whole product. So every feature can be rigorously tested and ironed out, getting rid of bugs etc. Hard to test a feature if it isnt there :P.

    If there are features that are non functional or missing, its clearly an Alpha, which is what we have here atm.

    This isnt a post to complain about RF2...Just wanted to get that off my chest, pet peeve :P.
    You seem to be confusing Beta with Release Candidate.

  4. #104
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    No, he is not. You are confusing Beta with Alpha.

  5.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #105
    Tim Wheatley's Avatar ISI Staff

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    You're not going to be able to call rF2 feature complete for a few years, if that is your basis for definition. rF1 wasn't out of beta until 2008 then.

  6. #106
    Yarach's Avatar

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    +1 for Tim

  7. #107
    Mulero's Avatar

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    A question.

    The updates go to the Alpha, for the betas or the Release Candidate?

  8.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #108
    Tim Wheatley's Avatar ISI Staff

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    There is ONE test version available to you, the one downloadable in this forum, the updates all go to that.

  9. #109
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    "alpha" "beta" "release candidate"... I don't give sh!t what you call it. I'm happy to just be playing whatever it is. I've already gotten $80 worth of fun out of it. And it will only get better.

  10. #110
    MaXyM's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Wheatley View Post
    You're not going to be able to call rF2 feature complete for a few years, if that is your basis for definition
    It looks like very handy statement backing up potential flaws, indefinitely. Maybe would be more serious if "for a few years" was more precisely defined given with guarantee. Following your words, even gold release will remain a beta, right?

    Please also check this page for definition of "beta version". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softwar...ase_life_cycle. Let me to quote a fragment: It generally begins when the software is feature complete.

    and also a word about open beta: Open betas serve the dual purpose of demonstrating a product to potential consumers, and testing among an extremely wide user base likely to bring to light obscure errors that a much smaller testing team may not find.

    I'm quite sure, releasing half-finished product with use of "beta" for version is not best way to demonstrate it to audience. I think, it would be more friendly and fair to use general conventions in version naming. Even if most of us accepts current state, progress etc.

    with regards
    Last edited by MaXyM; 04-27-12 at 05:48 PM.

  11. #111
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    Geez Maxym do you ever take a break? What Tim means is after gold release ISI will still continue to work on rF2 with content and updates for years to come. Quit picking apart every word like this is some sort of international court.

  12. #112
    MaXyM's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by CdnRacer View Post
    Geez Maxym do you ever take a break? What Tim means is after gold release ISI will still continue to work on rF2 with content and updates for years to come.
    I know that. And I'm happy about this.

  13. #113
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    There is no general definition for "beta" in the software industry, and, by the way, ISI staff called it more often "Test version" than "beta". Nearly every company i worked for had a more or less slightly different definition of "beta".
    Don't confuse Microsoft's definitions with industry wide definitions.

  14. #114
    We still be able to do updates and get official content after expires the period i bought (one year after ISI decide to call it gold)?

  15. #115
    MaXyM's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrat View Post
    There is no general definition for "beta" in the software industry, and, by the way, ISI staff called it more often "Test version" than "beta". Nearly every company i worked for had a more or less slightly different definition of "beta".
    Don't confuse Microsoft's definitions with industry wide definitions.
    Beta is just beta and has general definition. It means test of feature complete milestone (or version if you wish). There is no other definition of beta (but there are slightly differences). You cannot call product as beta if one is planned to be extended in future. There is no therm "beta forever". Just every single version has own alpha, beta, rc stages. (of course I'm not talking about garage-productions which usually doesn't fit any definition).
    I agree that ISI staff started to use 'test version' therm. It is way better name. I would even call it "feature test". But for sure it is not beta version

  16. #116
    Hagen Tröger's Avatar
     

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    how you can see, ISI can do this

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaXyM View Post
    Please also check this page for definition of "beta version". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softwar...ase_life_cycle. Let me to quote a fragment: It generally begins when the software is feature complete.
    The Wikipedia article cites 6 pretty weak sources. That, combined with the fact that "generally" is included with you quote makes your argument a lot less substantial. Gjon and Tim have already stated that goal of rF2 is to never be feature complete. What software is?

  18. #118
    K Szczech's Avatar
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaXyM View Post
    I agree that ISI staff started to use 'test version' therm. It is way better name. I would even call it "feature test". But for sure it is not beta version
    I'm confused.

    With test version we do testing.
    So with beta version we do betting?

    And what does "beta testing" mean, anyway? Must be some kind of abstract term not used in the industry...


    Just kidding of course, but my point is - if you start taking some expressions too literally, you will end up loosing their actual meaning.

    A "modders beta" - that's what it really is. Sometimes it's loosely referred to as "beta" or "test version".

    This only proves than one meaning can be expressed by different words. Then these words can then be translated into several different meanings by other person.
    What can I say - our communication isn't perfect, nor strictly defined.

    The trick is to understand the other person despite imperfections in communication. All it takes is some good will. Really

    As far as I know "modders beta" is not any term defined by industry, right? We have been given this term along with brief description what will be tested. It was clear enough to me.

    Personally, I don't mind people speaking freely / loosely - I will understand their meaning anyway - simply because I want to understand, rather than imply.
    Last edited by K Szczech; 04-27-12 at 07:51 PM.
    SRPL Shader Pack v0.92 is now available for modders: announcements / discussion
    "Be kind whenever possible. It's always possible." - Dalai Lama

  19. #119
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    Please, lets continue discussing semantics. I mean, is this a game, a simulation, or what?

    </trolling> hmmm...I'm hungry...

  20. #120
    Mulero's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Wheatley View Post
    There is ONE test version available to you, the one downloadable in this forum, the updates all go to that.
    Sorry, I forgot to put so ironic mode.

    I have RF2 from the day the beta came out, i searched many mistakes as i could and tried to communicate as best i could.

    So far I've tried to be politically correct but it goes from dark brown now.

    The only reason i have not requested the return is that i have spent many years playing pirated rFactor for free. Sorry, so I try to support RF2 all i can, but right now the only thing you deserve is a kick in the ass.

    This game gives off. At the rate you bear not in ten years we will have a game according to the computers we own.

    DX9? Why??? If anyone still using WindowsXP's their problem not ours. So is the technology, or advance or die. But this is not the real problem, the problem is that neither in DX9 the game look like it has to do.

    Sorry if these words sound harsh, but in this forum apart from Maxim and a couple more just have fanboys, so someone has to tell the truth.

    In the communities i frequent request refound rate is around 75%, two in three people are sooo unhappy with RF2, with what we've seen so far and the progress you see.
    This "beta" was intended for modders, but the modders asked about concrete things and solves nothing. I myself am trying to do a circuit, but there are so many wrong things that I left the project.

    Do not know which planet you live, or what planet this forum, but here on earth all over the world (at least 4 fonboys of this forum) is very unhappy with that seen so far.

    My words are hard but try to help. Hopefully next year when the next update comes out have to ask forgiveness for these words, but if so, at least my money Seize and RF3 will never be what RF2.

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