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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Top Gear TT - Dunsfold Aerodrome (Multi Layout)

  1. #161
    MarcG's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethone View Post
    Oh sorry, I'll stop release tracks then.
    dont you dare

  2. #162
    Bogboy's Avatar

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    Yawn

  3. #163
    canastos's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Where I race rF2 Rank Laptimes 

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    From the first moment I read this post, I was thinking: this guy should model the "reasonable priced car" as well ;-)

    and when I reach the last page of the post, I find you are already considering it; fine, in that case, I would suggest the Liana, as I think is the one they've been using last season, insn't it?

    Brilliant job; I wish the rest of the game and it's mods could get close to this level, as most of them probably won't be able to reach it. ISI, take a look here, give us an update

    Thanks a lot

    byyyyyye

  4. #164
    JJStrack's Avatar

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    somehow it makes me giggle that one of the most talented modelers in this community will bring us a Suzuki Liana out of all the amazing cars out there but i too think, that the Top Gear Track is only complete with one of the RPCs. I love your work Tuttle!

  5.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #165
    Tuttle's Avatar ISI Staff

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification @ISITrackTeam 

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    Thanks guys.

    Unfortunately I've to park the project due the HDR read/write locking in the new build 85.

    The track looks completely different now (huge step back for me in terms of eyecandy) and we can't work with profiles (no read/write)...so it's impossible to understand where I'm going with lights/textures/shaders etc.

    I usually need HDRs to optimize everything for a proper looking in different light/weather situations (texture saturations/proper baking/shaders values/colors etc)..but now the profile browsing do not work, so it's like painting in the dark.

    Happy to see new improvements in the reflection field..but I'm very disappointed for this limitation, considering the time we had to wait for a new build...

    Sorry.

  6. #166
    JvM's Avatar

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    Have you asked ISI about it, Tuttle?

  7. #167
    feels3's Avatar

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    HDR isn't such a big problem (at least for me) but big problem is with normal and specular maps. With new build they are working in a different way and track modders now have to set all materials and textures again with no guarantee that with the next build it will work.

  8.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #168
    Tuttle's Avatar ISI Staff

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    Quote Originally Posted by JvM View Post


    Have you asked ISI about it, Tuttle?
    Yep. Gjon said they've locked per track HDR profiles in both Devmode and ingame...if you ask my WHY...dunno.

  9.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #169
    Tuttle's Avatar ISI Staff

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    Quote Originally Posted by feels3 View Post
    HDR isn't such a big problem (at least for me) but big problem is with normal and specular maps. With new build they are working in a different way and track modders now have to set all materials and textures again with no guarantee that with the next build it will work.
    Normal, speculars and fresnels needs a proper HDR profile to be 100% evaluated as all those stuff depends on dynamic curves, light histograms, knees etc.....Without correct profiles you've to work with a crystal ball.

    Of course I could work with HDR off...but this is not the smartest way to do a good job.

    BTW..I've to agree with the rest of your post. 100%.

    THis is why modders needs more feedback from ISI. (think to the fact that this limitation is not even mentioned in the build feature list....)

  10. #170
    MaXyM's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Facebook profile @@MaXyM_SRPL 

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    Maybe it's matter of language, but IMO HDR shouldn't be used to tune up texture appearance. HDR is for fitting high range of light intensity into limited output range. Of course it will affects final appearance but it is not a tool to tune it. IMO textures should be prepared for neutral lighting. then lit with good, one HDR profile. If textures are prepared correctly - HDR will beatify it, otherwise - exaggerate flaws.
    I hope, ISI has started this way - to not allow track creators to play with HDR. Rather force them to prepare tracks for given, standardized HDR profile.

  11.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #171
    Tuttle's Avatar ISI Staff

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaXyM View Post
    IMO textures should be prepared for neutral lighting
    In real life "neutral lighting" does not exist...maybe in a still life ambient but not in a sunlight environment, so dynamic range needs to be evaluated in the the developing process.

    Rather force them to prepare tracks for given, standarized HDR profile.
    Nice way to ruin rF2. Hoping they are not working in this way.

  12. #172
    MaXyM's Avatar

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    Why do you think it will ruin something. You (as track creator) will be forced to create content just for one existing HDR profile. No reason to ruin anything.

    Why? Because irl light works same for anybody. Rules doesn't change depending on who is looking at. Leaving HDR to be freely modified by track creators will cause inconsistencies: one track will have darker shadows, another softer one, one will be warm coloured, another cold... IMO there is no place for artistic expression. It should look real and consistent.

  13. #173
    Lenniepen's Avatar

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    @Tuttle,

    Some people are running without HDR (because their PC is not good enough, like mine ).
    I may be wrong, but maybe your beautiful track will look terribly wrong with HDR OFF because you designed the textures/look with your special HDR-profile. With HDR OFF, I think it still has to look 'neutral', more rF1-like.

  14. #174
    LesiU's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuttle View Post
    In real life "neutral lighting" does not exist...maybe in a still life ambient but not in a sunlight environment, so dynamic range needs to be evaluated in the the developing process.



    Nice way to ruin rF2. Hoping they are not working in this way.
    Well, it exists... sun rays are always the same (until you start to simulate physical phenomenons occuring on the Sun ;-) ).
    Atmospheric effects is what have influence on scene lighting and I'd like to see that beeing simulated in shaders (as properly and accurately as possible), leaving HDR to just do what it was supposed to be doing.

    I also think, having to much freedom to tweak things is not always a good option.

  15.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #175
    Tuttle's Avatar ISI Staff

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    @ Maxym

    You miss the point, as usual.

    I'm talking about a feature that it's still working in rF2...but is temporary disabled.

    Since this feature still remains in the rF2 core...I've to work with it, I've to manage it, I've to consider it in my developing process and seems it worked since today uh?

    When, and if, this feature were removed from the game - I will starting with a complete different approach (more similar to rF1)...but now you're talking about your own wish list...while I'm talking about a feature that is temporary disabled.

    About inconsistencies; you can create aberrations with or without HDR profiles, just making bad textures, bad models, bad shader settings, using bad colors, using full whites, bad alphas, incorrect transitions, messed up normals, smoothing groups etc etc...

    If you know how to manage HDR profiles you can get great results, as for everything in other modding fields...

    Please, stop trying to hijack my thread to another useless, boring, infinite discussion.

    Thanks.

  16. #176
    Flaux's Avatar

     PC Specification Facebook profile @thisiskennyjay Where I race 

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    Well I have to say that the open-beta is for the testing of the mod-managing system. The packaging system. It is superb that you guys are already keen to build new proper content, but this isn't what the open beta is for, if I remember correctly...

    Thats also why it is completely normal that settings are going to change during the process of development.

    Good thing is, you will have around 10 years of fun with this software when it is finally released. So, I don't think it is necessary to rush things while the software is in an imperfect status...


    Hmm,...but what am I saying. Just release this beautiful track!!!

  17.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #177
    Tuttle's Avatar ISI Staff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenniepen View Post
    @Tuttle,

    Some people are running without HDR (because their PC is not good enough, like mine ).
    I may be wrong, but maybe your beautiful track will look terribly wrong with HDR OFF because you designed the textures/look with your special HDR-profile. With HDR OFF, I think it still has to look 'neutral', more rF1-like.

    You got the point. If you guys do not want a rF1 look in rF2 tracks...you've to manage new features...if you can't due old rigs...it's not my fault.

    And about Dunsfold it looks fine with HDR off, but more flat and less "dramatic".
    Last edited by Tuttle; 05-24-12 at 08:12 AM.

  18. #178
    Lenniepen's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuttle View Post
    You got the point. If you guys do not want a rF1 look in rF2 tracks...you've to manage new features...if you can't due old rigs...it's not my fault.

    And about Dunsfold it looks fine with HDR off, but more flat and less "dramatic".
    Yes, that's fine. And even with the standard/default HDR-profile is has to look ok.
    Off course it's not your fault my pc is 4.5 years old, but building a track/mod is not only for the ones with the killer PCs.
    It also has to run/look acceptable with lower settings, depending on your definition of acceptable. I had to lower mine with the transition from rF1 to rF2.

  19. #179
    MaXyM's Avatar

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    Tuttle, It's you who said, that working with single, ISI provided HDR profile is "nice way to ruin rF2".
    So don't complain if I'm trying to explain why it would be good way.

  20. #180
    MaD_King's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenniepen View Post
    @Tuttle,

    Some people are running without HDR (because their PC is not good enough, like mine ).
    I may be wrong, but maybe your beautiful track will look terribly wrong with HDR OFF because you designed the textures/look with your special HDR-profile. With HDR OFF, I think it still has to look 'neutral', more rF1-like.
    +1, I think it's better to adjust texture without HDR and check after the render with HDR. Can ISI confirm this way of working to avoid problem, how ISI work on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuttle View Post
    And about Dunsfold it looks fine with HDR off, but more flat and less "dramatic".
    Good point so, no new work to do

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