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Thread: Textures - Which compression format to choose?

  1. #1
    Gimli Oakenshield's Avatar

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    Textures - Which compression format to choose?

    Hi

    Thanks to another thread I managed to get Meganes in DevMod.
    I Wanted to try a new skin I made few days ago but when I erase one of the DDS BodyPaint, I get strange colors, its almost good but Black and White seems to be inverted and lines seems not to be realy smooth.

    I tried every Compression Format That I have :
    - DXT 1
    - DXT 2
    - DXT 3
    - DXT 5
    - Alpha Exponent (DXT 5)
    - YCoCg DXT 5
    - YCoCg Scaled DXT 5

    But no one gives the expected result.

    I've searched on the forum but did'nt find the solution.
    Any Idea ?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    D1Racer's Avatar

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    I use DXT5 ARGB interpolated alpha.

  3. #3
    Gimli Oakenshield's Avatar

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    I use Gimp! With DDS plugin and have not this one, or it has another name ?

  4. #4
    D1Racer's Avatar

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    Oh, I don't know about gimp sorry.

  5. #5
    D.Painter's Avatar

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    I don't have the same setting as you have either because I use the DDS plug-in for Photoshop.

    I'd say though that this one "Alpha Exponent (DXT 5)" should be all you need. The trouble with the ISI template is the alpha channel. It has some livery that has been saved to alpha channel. Really surprise to see this because it's a noob thing to do.

    Anyway you will need to make a new alpha layer and pasd it to the alpha channel. This will stop all that odd splotching your no doubt getting on your liveries. Set the channel like this;

    MeganeTemplate.png

  6. #6
    Gimli Oakenshield's Avatar

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    Hi

    Thanks for your answer that seem to be near to find my problem.

    But I don't realy understand what I haveto do, maybe my English is not enough, sorry for that.

    I created a new layer, nothing on it, what do I have to do then ?

    Thanks for your help !

  7. #7
    D.Painter's Avatar

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    I haven't been able to get the Meganes working in Devmode so I haven't really tested the alpha that's on that template pictured above. Though I have put a car in-game, I used the Mas2 and replaced one of the original skins.

    This is the car in-game. I think the alpha doesn't look to bad.
    Attachment 1161

    The trouble with using gimp it doesn't give you access to the alpha channel. I use Paintshop to paint with which is the same as gimp in so many ways but I also have Photoshop 7. In this I can get to the alpha channel and I use it to save them to DDS.

    Have a look at those pics and if you like I'll upload the modified template for you. At least it'll have a clean alpha channel.

  8. #8
    Goat's Avatar
     

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    What I have done is,
    Open your skin
    Make sure the skin has an alpha channel
    Right click on image
    Select Layer
    Select Mask
    Select Add Layer Mask
    Select Greyscale copy of Layer
    Once you do this you will see two images on your layer browser.
    Right click on the layer browser and select Apply Mask.

    Then save as you wish. I have used DXT 5 and all is well.

    Goat

  9. #9
    Gimli Oakenshield's Avatar

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    It's a bit better but still not good.

    That's almost good excepted :
    - White parts appears like chrome, it reflects everything.
    - Separations between two colors are over-aliased.

    BTW I thank you for your help, I'm close to reach what I'm looking for.

    EDIT : Here is a link to see the result.
    Last edited by Gimli Oakenshield; 02-15-12 at 01:07 PM.

  10. #10
    jtbo's Avatar

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    I had lot of issues with gimp and Alpha, even after removing alpha channel, alpha did remain there, even when putting it white or black and working from there, somehow Gimp did remember old things in alpha, I did put picture to powerpoint and imported back to gimp, that removed alpha and I could do it properly, just word of warning that with GIMP things can be bit troublesome at times.
    I am not a slave of my emotions, I can still be nice at times
    Learning suspensions, good read | my modding information website

  11. #11
    D.Painter's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goat View Post
    What I have done is,
    Open your skin
    Make sure the skin has an alpha channel
    Right click on image
    Select Layer
    Select Mask
    Select Add Layer Mask
    Select Greyscale copy of Layer
    Once you do this you will see two images on your layer browser.
    Right click on the layer browser and select Apply Mask.

    Then save as you wish. I have used DXT 5 and all is well.

    Goat
    And by doing this your making the alpha channel a multiple of many different shades of grey! This is so wrong! Grey scale on the alpha channel controls the shine of the car. You want that shine to be even and clear. What your suggesting make the cars go from White (Chrome) to Black (Matt). The livery would look splotchy with high shine in areas down to flat matt. If this is the way you want to do it then go for it but don't recommend it to other who are trying to learn the right way.

    Before you start going on at this post do one thing first. Learn how the alpha works and what it can do.
    Last edited by D.Painter; 02-16-12 at 06:10 AM.

  12. #12
    D.Painter's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimli Oakenshield View Post
    It's a bit better but still not good.

    That's almost good excepted :
    - White parts appears like chrome, it reflects everything.
    - Separations between two colors are over-aliased.

    BTW I thank you for your help, I'm close to reach what I'm looking for.

    EDIT : Here is a link to see the result.
    Try this template. Just flatten and save your livery (Skin) to DDS using DXT5. Leave the alpha channel alone.

    https://rapidshare.com/files/2799895260/ISIMegane.rar
    There are the layers needed to change the alpha but just leave them off and ignore them for now. Latter when your more confident you can use those layers to create chrome, Matt, and Fluro effect. But for now just keep it simple.

    [Edit] Sorry that template doesn't have the separate layers for the alpha. No matter though, You can just use the layers there and make up your own alpha layer set.
    Last edited by D.Painter; 02-16-12 at 06:07 AM.

  13. #13
    Goat's Avatar
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.Painter View Post

    Before you start going on at this post do one thing first. Learn how the alpha works and what it can do.
    You stated you are using Photoshop and the options for Gimp and Alpha layer control is limited.
    No one else was offering any suggestions so I offered mine. I do know how the alpha works and what it does.
    Before you turn into a bigger DBAG why don't you write a tutorial and post here. Include exactly what settings to use when working with GIMP so idiots like me can live up to your expectations.

  14. #14
    D.Painter's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goat View Post
    You stated you are using Photoshop and the options for Gimp and Alpha layer control is limited.
    No one else was offering any suggestions so I offered mine. I do know how the alpha works and what it does.
    Before you turn into a bigger DBAG why don't you write a tutorial and post here. Include exactly what settings to use when working with GIMP so idiots like me can live up to your expectations.
    I have no argument with your method to add a alpha layer. My argument is using a grey scaled copy of your livery. You can make up a set of layers from the original template to create a alpha channel with out using a finished livery design. If you know how the alpha works then why is it you don't already do a clean alpha channel?

    Using your own method to add a alpha gives you as much freedom to what you do and how you use the alpha as much as anyone with Photoshop.

    PS. I didn't use any abuse to describe you (DBAG). If you thought about what I said before you posted and as you say you know how the alpha works your reply post wouldn't have been necessary at all. I don't need to tutor you in something you already know. Just think about it.

  15. #15
    Goat's Avatar
     

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    There have been many post to this thread and still no answer for the original question has been provided for DDS and GIMP. I have tried every conceivable option in Gimp and had no success to getting skins to display perfectly. I have gotten very close but not exactly what I want. I think this is a limitation in how Gimp handles the Alpha Layer.
    I had the best results when I followed my process listed above for the main body color layer and I added my other decals over that.

    "Rant"
    My frustration with this thread, and many others, is a question is asked and the answer is very rarely given. The answers to the original questions are exercises in how smart the new poster is, a link to another thread or in this case bashing someone. With rFactor 2 coming out a new group of modders are gravitating to the game. Helping these people will benefit all who use rFactor2 in the future. The elitist attitudes of the more experienced are not conducive to this community and frankly I am sick of it.
    "Rant Over"

  16. #16
    jtbo's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goat View Post
    There have been many post to this thread and still no answer for the original question has been provided for DDS and GIMP. I have tried every conceivable option in Gimp and had no success to getting skins to display perfectly. I have gotten very close but not exactly what I want. I think this is a limitation in how Gimp handles the Alpha Layer.
    I had the best results when I followed my process listed above for the main body color layer and I added my other decals over that.

    "Rant"
    My frustration with this thread, and many others, is a question is asked and the answer is very rarely given. The answers to the original questions are exercises in how smart the new poster is, a link to another thread or in this case bashing someone. With rFactor 2 coming out a new group of modders are gravitating to the game. Helping these people will benefit all who use rFactor2 in the future. The elitist attitudes of the more experienced are not conducive to this community and frankly I am sick of it.
    "Rant Over"
    Goat, I'm with you with your rant

    And with GIMP my experience at least is that I can't really get right result out from it either, that trick copying image to power point, making copy of it, copying and pasting back to new image to gimp is something I have to do every now and then when I try to play with Alpha channel in gimp, but so far I haven't managed to figure out how do I get desired results out from it and what I have read from other game title modding boards it seem to be quite common, could be issue with GIMP, but as I'm very poor with graphics I can't give much other help than try to obtain some other image editor that could work with alpha channels to see if you can achieve your result that way. Also many recommend using nvidia dds plugin for bump maps and such, but I have never used that myself, I doubt that with my skills there would be much difference between paint and photoshop anyway :-\
    I am not a slave of my emotions, I can still be nice at times
    Learning suspensions, good read | my modding information website

  17. #17
    D.Painter's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goat View Post

    "Rant"
    My frustration with this thread, and many others, is a question is asked and the answer is very rarely given. The answers to the original questions are exercises in how smart the new poster is, a link to another thread or in this case bashing someone. With rFactor 2 coming out a new group of modders are gravitating to the game. Helping these people will benefit all who use rFactor2 in the future. The elitist attitudes of the more experienced are not conducive to this community and frankly I am sick of it.
    "Rant Over"
    I don't know were you get this sh@# from! No one is bashing you or give you attitude! That is ALL YOU!

    I DON'T use gimp BUT I do use Paintshop! Paintshop and Gimp are so close to being the same it's not funny. I can't help you with the alpha to give you the EXACT answer but what I can do is give you a direction to try! If your not prepare to work this out yourself and then hopefully share your newly found knowledge to help others.

    YOU have given your method to use MASK to add the alpha, Correct? Make the layers set up to create a alpha layer. MERGE those layers, NOT the livery layer! Click on the new ALPHA Layer Set and create MASK, Click on the eye to make the alpha layer NONE visible, Flatten and save to DDS.

    Try it and tail us how it works out. If you like try that template I put up for download. That has the alpha channel already set up so once you've painted your livery JUST flatten and save to DDS. NO MASK is needed. That's why it's there! TO HELP YOU!

  18. #18
    Goat's Avatar
     

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    Nov 2011
    D.Painter,
    I am sorry to have gotten to this place with you. Please accept my apologies.

    Gimli
    As far as the issue with Skins, I would suggest not using GIMP, if you want to work with rFactor 2 skins. The options for the alpha layer is to limited and your time will be wasted.

    Goat

  19. #19
    Dahie's Avatar

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    Just for the record:

    As somebody not working on windows and for people not working with photoshop, I created a set of Open source DDS-Utilities. This contains a DDS-Viewer and a very simple DDS conversion tool, which works just by drag-n-drop.
    They might be usefull as well to try out DDS-formats, although not everything DDS is capable of is supported.

  20. #20
    Gimli Oakenshield's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goat View Post
    As far as the issue with Skins, I would suggest not using GIMP, if you want to work with rFactor 2 skins. The options for the alpha layer is to limited and your time will be wasted.
    Thank you to try helping me. But as far as PS will be so expensive, I'll stay with GIMP. It's not my first time with this Software and it's my first big issue, so it isn't enough to me to leave GIMP

    I can't try what have been suggested before but will try as soon as possible, thanks a lot.

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