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Thread: Graphics are Great WTF are people saying rf 1 ?

  1. #121
    Baboulinet's Avatar

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    Ok sorry i reformulate: i fully agree with mechamorafa

  2. #122
    Old Hat's Avatar

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    I'm impressed with the physics/feel but also disappointed with the graphics, which are a bit of a mess on my system.
    There are some nice touches and bits of greenery at Spa, and I prefer the look of (see edit below) the road surface to iRacing and most other sims. But a lot of the building textures and the open wheelers' wing mirrors for example look like a cartoon. Worst is that shadows are all flickering, and various things blinking in the environment, stands etc - the worst I've seen actually.

    Despite my system, I can still see pretty much see what it all looks like with graphics maxed, just would have a low fps.

    Flags don't look right btw - look as though they're also suspended by a string at the top far corner.

    Generally I'd say - and this applies as much to sound - imersive bells and whistles are a too edged sword; if your brain picks up an obvious pattern e.g. a aircraft in the same place at the same time, person doing the same thing too often, sound obviously looping (as in the rain), then it kills the effect and actually reminds you the whole thing isn't real. Bit of tweaking required here and there, methinks.

    Anyway, will all this flashing and flickering I'm seeing be fixed by modders? I think default rf1 was the same for me but it was gone in VLM's Mid Ohio...

    Edit; I meant this to mean that I prefer the look of rF2's road surface over that of iRacing and most other sims.
    Last edited by Old Hat; 03-31-12 at 05:47 AM.

  3. #123
    buddhatree's Avatar

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    @Mechamorafa

    You've made your point mate. There's no need to constantly complain and spam every thread.

    If you want to provide feedback, I'm sure you are intelligent enough to do it in a constructive manner and in the correct forum.

    If you want a refund like you stated in another thread, then go ahead and hit the button.

    But Beta is not the place to complain. It's for giving the Devs something constructive feedback, in the correct forum.

    This is general discussion. Above ^ are the forums to report bugs, etc...

    General discussion does not mean rant and spam.

    Please mate. This is only the first beta build. If you wish to contribute and ride the beta until release, then please do and be helpful.

    If not, then please don't spoil the party for the rest of us. Get your refund and come back at release
    Ferraris weep a little when you downshift

  4. #124
    Slothman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by buddhatree View Post
    @Mechamorafa

    You've made your point mate. There's no need to constantly complain and spam every thread.

    If you want to provide feedback, I'm sure you are intelligent enough to do it in a constructive manner and in the correct forum.
    Beginning to doubt that as a lot of his comments are complaining about components not yet implemented as stated in the Knownissues.txt file.

    Case in point, that file states that the Rubber in rate is not accurate yet, however the line is.....so noone is being lied to, unless you too lazy to read the file....which I would say he hasnt based on his other arguements in other threads....

    As for the Graphics debate

    I for one think the graphics are a MASSIVE step up from rFactor 1. Switching back and fourth between the two is like night and day, which is what the original post was aimed at, or at least how I read it

    Onto the other topic about "why cant we have both in this day and age?" my answer is simple...I dont really care why we cant have both..I look at it differently, not that they might not have a point, its just not an area that I tend to dwell on, you know, personal opinions and all that.

    If you could only have one, superior physics or graphics, which would you choose?

    Personally if the answer is graphics, your looking at the wrong game, if its phyiscs your in the right area

  5. #125
    buddhatree's Avatar

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    Actually, I hope he stays on for the ride. It's perfectly OK to not like the graphics and have an opinion.

    But this is just the first beta build. We don't know what's coming.
    If everyone just keeps saying, "this is great!", then that's not very constructive either.

    He just needs to say it in a constructive way. Don't complain and be angry. Just say in the best way you can what's wrong and why it's wrong.

    I understand when you pay money for something it's easy to say, "Hey! wtf is this? It sucks!"

    But we paid for the final product with the opportunity to help with the beta.

    Moral of the story: if you think you can make the final product better, then help the Devs. If you think there's no hope, then get a refund.

    Simple
    Ferraris weep a little when you downshift

  6. #126
    Slothman's Avatar

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    Agreed

  7. #127
    ROON's Avatar

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    I think we'll all see the true beauty of rF2 once the beta phase has ended and some prestigious modding crews begin releasing their projects. Even today, high quality mods for rF1 can look quite beautiful. Who would argue that the HistoriX cars roaring around Virtua_LM's 1970's Le Mans circuit look bad?

    I like to use this video as an example: it's BSimRacing's WSGT2 mod being tested in rF1. Even in the old game it still looks impressive. Now imagine it in rF2, with shadows of trees being cast across the dashboard, rain pounding down on your windscreen and the wipers pushing torrents of water aside, your headlights punching a hole through the low visibility...



    With all due respect to ISI, I think the best is yet to come, and it'll be from the amazing modding groups like Virtua_LM & BSimRacing. If some of you still think it looks garbage then, you can come here and point and laugh at me. I don't mind.

  8. #128
    Jux's Avatar
     

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    It is definitely better than rF1, but rF2 still has this cartoony feel. I think it is the lightning. Grass seems too bright green, asphalt also is like from toy story. But it is really ok for a sim. Can't wait for the full version and also additional improvements ... cough dirt rally cough ...

  9. #129
    CdnRacer's Avatar

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    Cartoon? I don't understand. This is a cartoon.






    Spiderman looks pretty good to me as a cartoon.

  10. #130
    feels3's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jux View Post
    I think it is the lightning. Grass seems too bright green, asphalt also is like from toy story.
    I think it depends on textures which ISI is using on their circuits. Textures and materials are a weakest point of rf2. Lighting and shadowing are really good

    All we need is better shaders and textures.

    You can easily create more "photo look" textures using good quality photos as reference.

    Last edited by feels3; 02-13-12 at 12:01 PM.

  11. #131
    K Szczech's Avatar
     

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    Perhaps this will help understand another aspect of what people mean by "cartoonish".

    This is unedited screenshot from rFactor - achieving glass looking like this is currently impossible in rFactor 2:



    Also look at sky reflection on banner here - note that reflection is much stronger at further end of banner, because of different viewing angle. This is another example of fresnel reflections which are not supported by rFactor 2 at the moment.



    And finally look at carpaint here - another unedited screenshot from rFactor (I hope xoa won't mind me posting these screens here) - this is a comparison between standard rFactor shaders and custom ones.




    So to sum it up (again ) - yes, lot's of improvement have been made since rFactor 1 and I'm happy ISI made that effort. But calling graphics we see at the moment in beta version "great" is overstatement in my opinion. There's just so much more possible, but I dare to say ISI's staff is simply not that experienced with graphics.

    Praising something that is not good works against progress. On the other hand, good feedback or constructive criticism can be very motivating and productive, but getting angry or blaming someone for doing his best - that's something I consider immature behavior.
    SRPL Shader Pack v0.92 is now available for modders: announcements / discussion
    "Be kind whenever possible. It's always possible." - Dalai Lama

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Szczech View Post
    Perhaps this will help understand another aspect of what people mean by "cartoonish".

    This is unedited screenshot from rFactor - achieving glass looking like this is currently impossible in rFactor 2:



    Also look at sky reflection on banner here - note that reflection is much stronger at further end of banner, because of different viewing angle. This is another example of fresnel reflections which are not supported by rFactor 2 at the moment.



    And finally look at carpaint here - another unedited screenshot from rFactor (I hope xoa won't mind me posting these screens here) - this is a comparison between standard rFactor shaders and custom ones.




    So to sum it up (again ) - yes, lot's of improvement have been made since rFactor 1 and I'm happy ISI made that effort. But calling graphics we see at the moment in beta version "great" is overstatement in my opinion. There's just so much more possible, but I dare to say ISI's staff is simply not that experienced with graphics.

    Praising something that is not good works against progress. On the other hand, good feedback or constructive criticism can be very motivating and productive, but getting angry or blaming someone for doing his best - that's something I consider immature behavior.
    I really hope ISI are paying attention to this post, this sums up the problems with rF2's visuals beautifully, especially material and reflectivity issues.

  13. #133
    K Szczech's Avatar
     

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    I promised Tim some feedback on shaders and on graphics in general, but coreshaders.mas is currently locked so I'm waiting, because I prefer to provide spot-on feedback after verifying thing myself.

    Some things are obvious without even looking at shaders source code. I've found a lot of issues with billboards, which can be fixed very easily - not really bugs, but errors at level of concept itself. I need to sit down and put that all together one day There's no rush I guess - I believe they have their hands full in delivering new features related to tyres and weather. Time for graphics will come later, but the foundations for good graphics are there allready.

    I can see a lot of potential but it will require some work, not arguing or bi***ng
    SRPL Shader Pack v0.92 is now available for modders: announcements / discussion
    "Be kind whenever possible. It's always possible." - Dalai Lama

  14. #134
    CdnRacer's Avatar

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    I'm not arguing with anybody I just want to understand by cartoonish. Personally I do disagree with you saying road surface texture does not look good. I still don't understand this cartoonish comparison since you're showing screenshots of something that's not rF2. shrug.



    One mans trash is another mans treasure. Heck one guy in here says skyrim has bad graphics. *shock*

  15. #135
    K Szczech's Avatar
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by CdnRacer View Post
    I still don't understand this cartoonish comparison since you're showing screenshots of something that's not rF2. shrug.
    And who posted Spiderman?

    You're actually denying us the right to discuss if you limit our examples to rFactor 2 only, because that was exactly the point of my post - showing things that are impossible with rFactor 2, but possible with rFactor 1.
    SRPL Shader Pack v0.92 is now available for modders: announcements / discussion
    "Be kind whenever possible. It's always possible." - Dalai Lama

  16. #136
    ROON's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by K Szczech View Post
    ...things that are impossible with rFactor 2, but possible with rFactor 1.
    But are they really impossible, or simply not implemented yet? It is the same game engine as rF1, right? Remember that this is a beta and ISI have said there are many visual features which haven't been added yet!

  17. #137
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    I showed spider man because spider man is a cartoon. You are calling rF2 a cartoon so I'd like to see why. I don't think I'll ever get the answer as you'll show me a screenshot of something that isn't rF2 again.

    How am I denying anything?! I'm asking for an example of rF2 being a cartoon. Post a screen shot of rF2 next to a cartoon and do some comparisons. lol. I think I'll just leave this thread as this is going in circles at this point. These forums are nothing but a whinefest.

  18. #138
    K Szczech's Avatar
     

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    I think you simply take word "cartoonish" too literally.
    First of all, I haven't said rFactor 2 looks like a cartoon. In fact, no one did. People are using this word to express certain feeling they get from both rFactor and rFactor 2.

    And if you would read my comments to screenshots I posted then you should easily understand the reasons why I posted them.

    If you still don't then probably because you don't want to. In that case I can't help it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROON View Post
    But are they really impossible, or simply not implemented yet? It is the same game engine as rF1, right?
    I believe said it pretty clearily: "this is currently impossible in rFactor 2"
    As for rFactor 1 - community has added new possibilities to graphics engine by providing their own shaders. Look at Toyota Supra MK IV mod for example and compare that car to any ISI car in rFactor 1.
    All the shaders in rFactor 2 are currently (underlining just in case) encrypted and community has no way of making similar improvement we did with rFactor 1.
    SRPL Shader Pack v0.92 is now available for modders: announcements / discussion
    "Be kind whenever possible. It's always possible." - Dalai Lama

  19. #139
    Robert Gödicke's Avatar

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    I do understand people using the word "cartoonish" to express their feelings when looking at rFactor 2.
    "Cartoonish" can describe quite a lot of things, but I believe it's safe to call it "the word used to describe the visual art direction which does not necessarily try to look as realistic as possible, but to look perfectly seamless and original".

    When driving in rFactor2, I don't notice visual imperfections as much as in rFactor1, which is a huge step forward already in my opinion. Texture work from ISI was always a little bit more saturated I guess.

    If you compare rFactor1's art direction of Toban with Virtua_LM's MidOhio for example, you'll get the idea. The last one featuring less saturated colors, more "dirty" or "used" textures and higher resolution grass textures and such, both still are great when it comes down to one thing: Seamless visuals. All objects, textures, speculars etc. fit together on both, but when showing someone a screenshot of Toban and one of MidOhio, people will probably tend to say that Virtua_LM's creation looks more "realistic", or the other way round, Toban a little bit more "cartoonish".

    But aside from great texture work and modeling, better shaders can boost the visuals to a whole new level. The materials have the biggest impact on the visuals I guess, so I gotta agree with K Szczech here. As soon as Virtua_LM finishes their MidOhio version for rFactor2 (first previews were already shown), I guess we might read a lot more "rFactor2 will look awesome once it reaches final status" posts here in the forums.

    Besides, I believe that not all shaders and PostFXs are included yet. Current ones will be upgraded and new ones will be added. I'll wait and see where we're heading.
    Like I said, when driving, rFactor2 is already much better than rFactor1 using default shaders. The asphalt alone is a huge step forward. Besides, the physics, input and FFB are already amazing and are raising the bar for immersion to a whole new level for me.

  20. #140
    ROON's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by K Szczech View Post
    I believe said it pretty clearily: "this is currently impossible in rFactor 2"
    Not quite as clear as it could have been:

    Quote Originally Posted by K Szczech
    achieving glass looking like this is currently impossible in rFactor 2
    Quote Originally Posted by K Szczech
    showing things that are impossible with rFactor 2, but possible with rFactor 1
    But thank you for the response. It was a genuine question not a dispute.

    Quote Originally Posted by K Szczech
    currently (underlining just in case)
    No need to be cheeky about it, mate.

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