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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Sound Engine infos

  1. #1
    Fonsecker's Avatar

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    Sound Engine infos

    As a sound creator, is just wonder if there will be any changes in the sound engine?

    New file formats, surround/3d sound capabilities or any thing else?

    And is there a chance to discuss things that should be possible in the new sound engine. Because i have some very interesting ideas, this new sound enging should have.

    Thanx in advance

  2. #2
    Carbonfibre's Avatar

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    I approve of this thread.

    Having a sound engine as sophisticated as GT5 would be a good start. They can make the worse samples sound believable on track cameras but fail on the internals.

    Therefore I think having major improvements on the environmental effects while continuing to employ the tried and tested wavetable system would be best, as it stops everybody having to throw away good samples.

    Saying that, we definitely need to expand on a few new extras into the wavetable such as turbo samples, as well as having a dynamic transmission warble instead of having to embed it within the sample.

  3. #3
    Fonsecker's Avatar

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    Turbo Sounds is a good start. The transmission Sounds are not theat bad in RF1, but for high realism, i wloud prefer to have more possibilities on that, for example, for each gear seperate tranny sounds, cause on some sequential transmission, different gears sounds different.

    it would be very nice to have only mono WAV files and the sound engine makes the effect of stereo or 3D sound. This would save some memory because of the half size compared to stereo files.

    I also think it would be much easier to create the effects like tunnel or anything else.

    it should be also possible to have static shift sounds. For example: In RF1 the shift sounds rev up with speed of car, this sounds bad if u have a sample that is recorded at 80mp/h but revs up like mickey mouse at 180mp/h...

    Also a very important sound thing: If u drive through gravel or dirt, sound should not stop immediately when back on road. The sound of small stones hit the car should fade ot...would be much better.

    These are just some things i would like to see in RF2.

  4. #4
    Jeffrey Rietveld's Avatar

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    I really wonder how the sound engine will be. In my opinion not any sim has been close to the real world sounds.

  5. #5
    MaXyM's Avatar

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    @Fonsecker

    I cannot agree with simulating env sound from mono samples. It will always sound wird untill you move a lot of processing power into processing audio signals. Simply it is waste of cpu power (a lot of users if not most uses onboard auto) without guarantee that you got correct results. Especially that you are not able to record engine sound inside a car without reverberation produced by in-car space.

    Your idea would save memory load paid by more complexity of preparing recordings and additional computing load

    however surround sound engine with possibility to generate reverberations (for example for outside TV cameras) would be good.

    best regards
    Last edited by MaXyM; 10-07-10 at 09:55 AM.

  6. #6
    Fonsecker's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaXyM View Post
    @Fonsecker

    I cannot agree with simulating env sound from mono samples. It will always sound wird untill you move a lot of processing power into processing auto signals. Simply it is waste of cpu power
    ok, i am not that pro in technical view. But u are right, special in Copckpit you need original recorded stereo files to sound good.

  7. #7
    lordpantsington's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fonsecker View Post
    Turbo Sounds is a good start. The transmission Sounds are not that bad in RF1, but for high realism, i would prefer to have more possibilities on that, for example, for each gear separate tranny sounds, cause on some sequential transmission, different gears sounds different.
    Awhile back I had found a couple papers on the subject, which I linked to and emailed to ISI. Looks like the pitch of tranny whine is largely dependent on the harmonics of the teeth meshing frequency. We already have gear tooth count defined in the Gear.ini. Never got a reply, but I'm sure it got to where it needed to go. Here are the links for those interested.
    http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/cor...004/16E_05.pdf
    and
    http://paginas.fe.up.pt/gears2003/ac...%20Vu%20Du.pdf

  8. #8
    Pandamasque's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fonsecker View Post
    it would be very nice to have only mono WAV files and the sound engine makes the effect of stereo or 3D sound. This would save some memory because of the half size compared to stereo files.
    I'd like that. All that most sound modders have is a bunch of mono onboards, so if the sound engine does the stereo/surround environment simulation as post-fx it would save us a lot of trouble AND sound better, because all the FX would happen AFTER the samples are pitched and mixed.

    Also here's a suggestion I posted on the rF2 Facebook thread.
    rF sound engine is quite good already, but there seem to be no post FX at all (apart from Doppler).

    Many cars sound absolutely different when facing the listener with the exhaust pipe or with the engine.
    For example the DBRS9 rips your ears with the screaming exhausts after it passes you
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw4CZUMq98s
    Same here, C6.R (most noticeable at 0:16)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUeqWSzGLXg
    Here's another example of how different the cars sound depending no the direction they're facing
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdybv8wP4Hc
    What I'd like to see (hear actually) is directional engine sound and multiple sound sources in a single car + some reverb-like effects of the track to simulate the reflected sound.
    The different engine sound can be achieved by making external engine rev. samples in stereo, so that the sound at front of the car could be assigned to one channel, and the rear to the other, then apply gradual 'pan' to the samples depending on which end of the car is closer to the camera. Just a thought. Of course It could be implemented by just adding 2 extra sets of samples to separate exhaust power/coast vs. intake power/coast sounds.
    One more thing. If you listen to any onboard racing vid it's quite obvious that due to the loudness of the own engine the driver can barely hear other cars when they are right in front, or side-by-side. Also it's not possible to hear the car behind at all.
    The only was to emulate that in rF is to decrease the loudness of the external sounds dramatically.
    Something should be done to emulate the 'sound insulation' inside the car.

    Also TC sound (if it's a noise-only sample) should be pitched to match the revs. Though ideally there should be a separate set of samples of not TC noise but actual engine noise with TC 'cutting' it, pitched of course.

    The rumble strips should be pitched according to the speed like in iRacing.

    In rF1 there are no shift sounds in online sessions except for your own car. This bug that has been carried over since F1C (or F1-2002?). It's time it should be dealt with!
    Last edited by Pandamasque; 10-07-10 at 08:40 PM.

  9. #9
    Fonsecker's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandamasque View Post
    Also TC sound (if it's a noise-only sample) should be pitched to match the revs. Though ideally there should be a separate set of samples of not TC noise but actual engine noise with TC 'cutting' it, pitched of course.
    Oh, how could i forget to mention this...yes, this would be very nice if we cold have seperate Sound files for TC and Speed limiter. best would be if the speed limiter sound is a own sound that plays instead of the engine sound, to avoid mixed sounds.

  10. #10
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

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    Sounds in rFactor have never really blown me away. I think mono source files could be muxed into surround sound channels with out of phase, echo, balance and other filters to really get the sounds to a point in space. The most important thing that isn't addressed with sounds is their origin relative to the in-game head. Yes a front engine will make sounds through the firewall, but you are more likely going to hear intense sound from the exhaust exit. And that could be behind the front tire, though a side-pipe, or out the back. Even on top for racing trucks.

  11. #11
    Fonsecker's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeosPantera View Post
    Sounds in rFactor have never really blown me away.
    Good sounds depends on the source you have. if u donīt have the perfect source, u cannot make good sounds.

    These are some very good examples:




    For this sounds, i had some very good samples. They are almost perfect from technical side.

    You can fit some sounds by filters and things but they will never sound like the real deal without a very good source file.

  12. #12
    xzess's Avatar

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    Porche looks exactly as Endurance series. Sound modder of the group?
    "Play realistic, race harder, setup better"
    (The Bomb is over You)

  13. #13
    MaXyM's Avatar

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    about this sound. Sounds good but has unbalanced volume in function of distance. I mean the volume turns down too fast while car is moving away

  14. #14
    LesiU's Avatar

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    @xzess
    That's PCC2007 mod from GSMF with their own content.

  15. #15
    xzess's Avatar

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    LesIU with new sounds? originals aren't that sounds:
    PCC2007: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRtxubKo2IA
    Endurance Series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKo9kVdf9Pg
    I don't know if they have their own or not... im only asking.. but sounds exactly the same as endurance series, but maybe was a sound post release, or maybe i've downloaded wrong PCC 2007 version and youtube has a lot of fake downloads. (I see it's Pcc cockpit but not same sounds, obiusly not)
    "Play realistic, race harder, setup better"
    (The Bomb is over You)

  16. #16
    LesiU's Avatar

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    But these samples are not the same :P Are similar, that is fact, but that's because both are Porsche Cup cars ;-)

  17. #17
    Fonsecker's Avatar

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    These ar some PCC2009 Mod Sounds, but never public released, only for league.

  18. #18
    xzess's Avatar

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    Thanks for the disclaimer Fonsecker.
    "Play realistic, race harder, setup better"
    (The Bomb is over You)

  19. #19
    DHR's Avatar
     

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    The on-board sound capability with the older gmother engine is pretty good. If you listen to the champ car 2006 mod sounds and some of the Endurance Racers on-board sounds they are very realistic tone wise. On-board it just lacks some of the transmission sounds, especially on down-shifts. But there's not that much that needs doing for the internet sound structure, just some features/fx adding etc which is already possible (Simbin have added extra effects in their own games)

    External sounds is what is needed to be improved the most, the engine needs a much stronger and more impressive Doppler effects which will give the game the realistic sound of when a car flies by from outside, which am sure is being worked on.

    There are Doppler effects you can use in your own DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) and with that you can put a car sound sample in there and put it through the Doppler effect and get some impressive results, that sound realistic if done right.

  20. #20
    ZeosPantera's Avatar

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    I have figured out what turns me off to rfactors sounds. It's the level of bass in most engine sounds. Even the Shelby Cobra 427 doesn't rock the earth like it should at idle or high rev's. Its like all sounds have been compressed to not distort cheap headphones. Yes a porsche will have a higher pitch then a big V8 but it should still sound like an engine is running somewhere in the room. Also alot of mods have the sounds at red-line get quiet to the point where I forget to shift. Red-line should be the loudest of the rev curve. Not idle.

    Best rfactor has ever sounded to me is through a recording of my surround sound.. NOT THROUGH THE SURROUND SOUND.. but the recording of the game playing through the surround sound.. If you catch my drift.


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