rFactor 2 WIP Screenshots

[Scott Juliano]

I just dont get why snapshots are taken when the track obviously is looking like some rfactor track. Mills rFactor 2 looks more polished.

We did it because everyone has been asking us for Work In Progress shots. We just thought it would be cool to show you another track we are WORKING on. Then of course, we have to take time out because people get upset that our WIP doesn't look finished or polished and we have to explain why--it's not finished

Here's an example of what I mean. The bit on the left is a placeholder texture, on the right is almost finished. Just because a track doesn't look polished as a WIP doesn't mean it won't when it's final....



I really like showing things as they're being worked on, but with reactions like we got with that last set sometimes I have to wonder if it's a good idea, honestly, you know?

[ZeosPantera]

with reactions like we got with that last set sometimes I have to wonder if it's a good idea, honestly, you know?

Don't let a few apples spoil the bunch. We (and I believe I speak for everyone) appreciate any and all wip shots no matter how rough. Though the most important screenshots to me are going to be the ones showing the Main Menu/lobby. The layout and feel of that needs to be spot on.

[RT1971]

Yes its OK Scott the rest of us know what WIP stands for.

[Scott Juliano]

Yes its OK Scott the rest of us know what WIP stands for.

Well, I didn't say we were going to stop... I just said sometimes it makes me wonder :P

[Scott Juliano]

I have to say the reason I think they haven't drastically changed how rfactor looks is because if your an rFactor fan vs say a toca or GTR or iRacing fan it is because of the "feel".

There is some truth to this. While I always felt the original rF1 tracks were a bit over-saturated, they also had a very distinct look and feel to them. You knew just by looking that they were rFactor... So, while Luc and I strive for a more realistic look, we still want to try and keep that feel, and so our stuff tends to be a bit more colorful. But I honestly have to say, in its defense, that the world is not the desaturated gloom that a lot of people think it should be. If I walk outside and look around the colors are very bright and vivid, surfaces are blown out by the sun, leaves and grass are not just green, but have a plethora of subtle (and not so subtle) color variation. I prefer to make our environments look a bit more vibrant than what a lot of people think is "realistic"....

Just my opinion of course :P


Edit: But, that's one of the joys of rFactor(2)--if you don't like something, change it. That's what it's all about...

[Scott Juliano]

It's the grass texture. I can't see any tile effects.

Not what I was looking for, but THANK YOU. Both Luc and I HATE texture repetition (although it is just one of those unavoidable traits with game art) and have spent a lot of effort trying to reduce the effect as much as possible

[Taxi645]

We did it because everyone has been asking us for Work In Progress shots. We just thought it would be cool to show you another track we are WORKING on. Then of course, we have to take time out because people get upset that our WIP doesn't look finished or polished and we have to explain why--it's not finished

I really like showing things as they're being worked on, but with reactions like we got with that last set sometimes I have to wonder if it's a good idea, honestly, you know?

Well personally I don't expect WIP shots to be perfect or polished, but I think it is good to be aware that some sense of progressive trend in your WIP publications will always give much better reactions. I also like to add that even though sometimes people are critical most reply because they care about rFactor (2). I like rFactor 2 to do good and even though I personally care much more about the physics, good GFX are still nice to have and good for overall popularity of the game.

There is some truth to this. While I always felt the original rF1 tracks were a bit over-saturated, they also had a very distinct look and feel to them. You knew just by looking that they were rFactor... So, while Luc and I strive for a more realistic look, we still want to try and keep that feel, and so our stuff tends to be a bit more colorful. But I honestly have to say, in its defense, that the world is not the desaturated gloom that a lot of people think it should be. If I walk outside and look around the colors are very bright and vivid, surfaces are blown out by the sun, leaves and grass are not just green, but have a plethora of subtle (and not so subtle) color variation. I prefer to make our environments look a bit more vibrant than what a lot of people think is "realistic"....

Just my opinion of course :P


Edit: But, that's one of the joys of rFactor(2)--if you don't like something, change it. That's what it's all about...

That's all I want to hear, as long as one is able to change it to once own preferences. That said, would it be a good idea two have two GFX presets which can be tested during beta, one more in line with rFactor 1 and one which the some (including me) consider more realistic; less warm, slightly less saturated and slightly higher contrast (more in line with say F1 2010 for instance). You could eventually offer people one of the two presets.

It's 5 years since the launch of rFactor, the general public will have rather high expectations about GFX realism after such long time (also having seen the GFX of other recent racing games, where in some youtube vids you starting to get to the point where you begin to wonder sometimes which one is real and which one is the game) and even though rFactor isn't as much about GFX as those titles, I think it is important to strive for a realistic look.

As said I post here because I care about rFactor, it may not always be positive, but I would be more worried if people didn't care at all, so I'd take it as a good sign.

[Jeffrey Rietveld]

Those curbstones are bad ass !

[shum94]

Amazing, i just love it how this subject is there these days. Graphics arent important. If it was true then we shall have rF2 since 2009...
Lets just keep running on the same engine and change only ffb & physics.

rFactor looked great when it came out and talented artist such as V_LM, Afdelta, piXsim, Andrea from GSMF showed how rF could spill some nice rendering.
Now i dont ask for any bull**** effect who litteraly kill the visual by over doing it (Codemasters title without fx are pretty sad looking, nfs shift too).

Your screen is very intresting Scott. Snapshots should be posted when it's almost final like it is on the right of the screen. No need to show something who looks like rF1 (left part of the screen).

Let's show progress, rF2 will be release in 2011 and every person serious about video games on pc platform should have a 200 € video card, and the one asking for good framerate with their 40 € cards are foolish.

Games should be ran at full graphics, full filtering, we are on pc platforms ffs

[6e66o]

that's one of the joys of rFactor(2)--if you don't like something, change it. That's what it's all about...

Where is the :thumbs up: smilie?

I´ve been telling this people for ages.

[shum94]

I already said that i would buy rF 2 despite my opinion of the official content. And i'm probably the only one who feels that rFactor 2 should be charged 3 times the price i paid for rFactor.

But marketing is marketing, snapshot should be showed when progress is made. Some people who hesitates could be turned down by some previews.

[MaXyM]

If I walk outside and look around the colors are very bright and vivid, surfaces are blown out by the sun, leaves and grass are not just green, but have a plethora of subtle (and not so subtle) color variation. I prefer to make our environments look a bit more vibrant than what a lot of people think is "realistic"....

Agree but... making graphics realistic is to get know how a picture is created in real world. It is not enough to move single colours into virtual world. Real world objects have nice coulours but also affected by surroundings, for example by blue sky. After that colours get more gray but... depends on other factors like angles between object and observer and obect and the sun. Sun adds additional colour factor to final one, adds shades etc. Check videos of my colegue, K Szczech, who developed new shaders for rF1. Tarmac changing colour while you changing angle to the sun.Trees going darker while you watch them agains sun? It is all possible in rF1 already without changing whole engine.
What else. Shades. As K Szczech, said: shadow is not a dark object over other ones. Shadow is a missing of a light. That's very important thought which should change approach to generate virtual world representation.
Another one is simulatino of how our eyes behaves on changes of light intensity. But it's another story

So... what I want to say: reality of 3d scene is not about changing saturation. It's about reproducing phenomenas of real word. Without it 3d scene will be always artifical/plastic looking.Authors of CryEngine engine understood this well. the same about GT5. F1 2010 is realy close to this. At basis all games do the same: strain bitmap texture over objects - nothing more, nothing less. Missing more advanced shaders in rF is one of more important issue in gfx area. And please note, that this is not an engine limitation.

[Pandamasque]

Not what I was looking for, but THANK YOU. Both Luc and I HATE texture repetition (although it is just one of those unavoidable traits with game art) and have spent a lot of effort trying to reduce the effect as much as possible

....and have done rather well!

People don't notice realism. They notice when it's lacking

[mianiak]

So I take it no one has guessed the revelation yet? :P

[sommergemuese]

Another one is simulatino of how our eyes behaves on changes of light intensity.

You mean HDR. But most peoples thinks about Bloom and not HDR if they hear about it.

What I am really missing are just some new Shaders for rFactor 2 featuring real time reflections on the car (maybe like FVA or Shift) and Shadows. If you drive in Shift the Nordschleife or other tracks you can see Shadows (and Light) from Trees, Fences, lanterns, A-pillar.... in your Cockpit (and outside of course too) which I am missing in gMotor 2 Games. And if you watch Onboard Videos on youtube it is Quite realistic. And the immersion goes 1000 miles up

[Pandamasque]

I noticed
- nice transparent roof over the stands
- green light near the grandstand
- marshals at their posts, they have flags and a toilet...
- nearly empty grandstands (realistic for Sepang )
- the creative interpretation of the LG logo
- the asphalt looks a bit strange, are those marbles everywhere?

[MaXyM]

@ sommergemuese

As I saw on rf2 preview screenshots, self shadowing will be (is) implemented. Don't know about real time reflections (I gues you mean environment reflections on cars). But even so, it will still look artificial if there will be no correct lighting/shading. Look on the video you attached. tarmac changes colour from blue (reflects env light - mean blue color fro sky) to brown (reflects sun light which is warm-yellow). Note that shadows are more blue, instead of make current colour darker. It is because there is missing directional sun light, and only environmental blue light is reflected.

BTW: bloom is nothing wrong if used correctly. Directional light may disperse on edges makes some kind of aural effect. Problem is, that more game developers use it as special effect which should made game attractive than as additional one to represent physical effect. HDR is another part to explore for example: how eye adapts to light changes.

Of course i'm not talking to blame current engine or developers for how to wip shots look. It's for them who think that changing saturation is enough to make picture more real. It is simply not true.

[Scott Juliano]

Of course i'm not talking to blame current engine or developers for how to wip shots look. It's for them who think that changing saturation is enough to make picture more real. It is simply not true.

Of course it isn't I was just making a point that there is a lot more color in real life than people seem to want in on screen visuals. I mean, all those effects that you're talking about can't happen if the color is lacking--it has to have a source of course...

And we already have real time environment reflections (I'm sure that will be more apparent when you guys get some videos later on) on the car, as well as self-shadowing (on everything)...

Anyway, back to work...

[sommergemuese]

Sounds great all the things I want and HDR = perfect

Then rf2 can look better than Shift?

[cosm1]

i found shift shader the best real looking i never see on pc, is very photorealistic on my opinion, i think isi have to follow that way on the 'graphic department'!
BUT maybe rf2 will look much better, who knows??