Controller Limits

[ADSTA]

Well put LesiU.

I think the point CdnRacer is missing is that controllers are the way we interact with the game.
The more controllers we can use the more immersive the experience.
We all know cars/racecars have a steering wheel, pedals and a gearshifter.
Do you see any of them with a keyboard to control everything else.
I think not.

As long as I see people wanting, what I call 'fluff', eg: animated arms, animated pit crew etc I will carry on my call for less limitations on controllers like iRacing have.
And no. I'm am not an Iracing fanboy, rarely use it actually.

I'm hoping an ISI member can give us a detailed reply, more than just "4 controllers will be supported", when they return from their much needed holiday.

[CdnRacer]

As long as I see people wanting, what I call 'fluff', eg: animated arms, animated pit crew etc I will carry on my call for less limitations on controllers like iRacing have.
And no. I'm am not an Iracing fanboy, rarely use it actually.

*Facepalm* Maybe you didn't read my posts? I'm sure ISI would love to please everyone but time, money and other restrictions will always prevent that. Does ISI want to piss off 8 people to keep 2 people happy or would they want to piss off 2 people and keep 8 happy? If you have 8 controllers and have found a sim that accepts them all then congradulations. You really have to understand why some post on here. Some post to keep their name fresh in the mind of sim racers. Hmmmm. Think about the OP and the topic. The OP is a self proclaimed "master of marketing". If english is your first language you should be able to put two and two together on this one.

[blakboks]

Well, you ARE also talking about a $50 sim vs. a $90/year (at BEST value) + car$ + track$... This might be one of those instances where "you get what you pay for". Quite frankly, the amount that we'll already get for the price of rF2, I'd say we've already got a great value (once it's released, that is). Plus, that might be a significant up-selling point for them for rFPro.

Seems to me that if you have that much money invested in the simracing hardware, you've moved well beyond the amateur sim-racer, anyway.

Does anyone know if Windows limits the number of buttons and/or analog axes a single controller can have? Seems like there'd be some sort of software out there to combine multiple controllers so the software (or Windows) would only see one.

[Lazza]

Great. "rF2 sucks with only 4" vs "Why the heck should anyone need that many". This isn't going anywhere.

[CdnRacer]

Great. "rF2 sucks with only 4" vs "Why the heck should anyone need that many". This isn't going anywhere.

LOL. I have to agree with you. People stomp their feet when they don't get their way I suppose and I like to voice my opinion. Both have been shown in this thread.

[thuGG]

CdnRacer if you are not interested in having more than 4 input devices, then go away from this thread. You will be pleased with max 4, so why are you even here?

There are some people that will be having:
- wheel
- shifter
- sequential shifter
- pedals
- keyboard

That's not that uncommon, you know?
And since rF2 aims to be the state of the art sim it should support the state of art sim rig.

[CdnRacer]

CdnRacer if you are not interested in having more than 4 input devices, then go away from this thread. You will be pleased with max 4, so why are you even here?

There are some people that will be having:
- wheel
- shifter
- sequential shifter
- pedals
- keyboard

That's not that uncommon, you know?
And since rF2 aims to be the state of the art sim it should support the state of art sim rig.

Max 4 controllers. It's already been said. Stomp your feet and pout all you want to keep this thread alive.

[K Szczech]

The purpose of this thread is to show ISI that there are people interested in having more than 4 controllers supported.

Trying to convince these people they don't need more than 4 is just weird. I don't use that many, but I fully understand that there actually is need for more. I'm pretty sure ISI understands that too and only need to get some feedback from community to properly weight that need on their list.


You don't have to post any pictures, animations nor facepalms, because it's not them who don't understand what you say. It's you who didn't understand the purpose of this thread.
This thread wasn't meant for neither you nor me, so let's leave it alone, shall we?

[Derek Speare]

When I posted this thread to make the suggestion it was solely directed at ISI. That they (hopefully) read the suggestion I made and heard the words is enough for me. I didn't make this post to convince anyone to support the idea. Of course, I'm pleased to see my friends and familiar "faces" here and also that there is support for the idea, necessity really (IMHO). Those who support the suggestion give it additional weight. Those who don't - and who want to draw irrational conclusions from the intention with hyperbole - are really just dead weight.

Happy holidays to all, and much success for the new year!!!

d

[Vinceton]

[QUOTE=CdnRacer;20291]Max 4 controllers. It's already been said. Stomp your feet and pout all you want to keep this thread alive.

christ man, the way this guy defends, you'd think they'd require a team of the best NASA scientists to lift the controller limit.

You've even said they don't have unlimited resources. The team might not have noticed it, or realized the community needs it, that's why these guys are pointing it out. It's free feedback. You'd rather they pay for a team of testers? Thereby taking resources away from whatever it is YOU demand from the game.

[superbike81]

Very interested in lifting this arbitrary controller limit.

Wheel
Pedals
Shifter
Button Box
SLI-Pro

I don't see that as being a setup that is wildly over the top or anything like that, and I know there are quite a few people out there with a similar setup. Oh well, in the mean time, I'll take Derek's recommendation and use XPadder for keyboard emulation.

[mikeyk1985]

Don't most pedals plug into the wheel?? if your hardcore enough to have more than 4 pieces of equipment then I'd imagine you would have said expensive wheel to go with expensive pedals?? maybe that would make too much sense.

I noticed someone uses a sequential shifter and an H shifter at the same time, are you just trying to burn off your computers PSU?? lol
Seems like a ringing endorsement of the game if this is all people can think of to complain about.

[thuGG]

Yes most pedals do. But it's pretty common to have for instance Fanatec CSP and plug it into usb.
Connect:
1. Logitech G27
2. Thrustmaster shifter
3. Fanatec CSP
4. Keyboard

And that's all. What about sequential shifter, handbrake, etc?

mikeyk1985, try to understand that this thread makes a valid point that 4 input devices is too limited for many hardcore simracers.

[sg333]

I'll also throw in a vote for more controllers. A proper sim should allow use of proper sim hardware, meaning a NEED for 5 or 6 controllers.

[ADSTA]

Don't most pedals plug into the wheel?? if your hardcore enough to have more than 4 pieces of equipment then I'd imagine you would have said expensive wheel to go with expensive pedals?? maybe that would make too much sense.

I noticed someone uses a sequential shifter and an H shifter at the same time, are you just trying to burn off your computers PSU?? lol
Seems like a ringing endorsement of the game if this is all people can think of to complain about.

With the Fanatec gear, yes you can plug the pedals into the wheel but the pedals will have a resolution of 256.
If you plug the pedals into the pc via usb the pedals have a resolution of 1028.
Those numbers may not be exactly correct as I'm quoting from memory but the resolution difference is substantial.

As for the seq and H pattern gears.
No, they don't get used at the same time.
The idea is that we can leave them plugged in all the time and so you can make a decision about which one you would prefer to use in any given car.
With rF1 and it's 3 controller limit, you have to unplug the one you don't want to use.
Plus with Windows 7 and Vista, in the game controller screen you can't move the order of what is plugged in.
Apparently in XP you could.

Your comment about "burning off the computers PSU" will have me laughing all the way to release day.
By the way, I do not consider myself 'hardcore'. I just like my toys and gadgets.


So now a question to ISI.
Is the 4 controller limit in rF2 set in concrete or is there a chance to expand the limit?

[CdnRacer]

With the Fanatec gear, yes you can plug the pedals into the wheel but the pedals will have a resolution of 256.
If you plug the pedals into the pc via usb the pedals have a resolution of 1028.
Those numbers may not be exactly correct as I'm quoting from memory but the resolution difference is substantial.

Substantial in number yes, but substantial in actual output, I don't think so. I've tried both and it was not a noticeable difference. It had absolutely no difference in lap times for me either. I've even watched my inputs very closely in replays and the resolution difference was very negligible. I would suspect plugging your pedals into a separate USB has more of a placebo effect than anything.

[ADSTA]

I won't argue with you on that.
I roughly did the maths one day.
80mm of pedal travel, 256 bits of resolution equates to roughly 1mm of travel to 3 bits.
How sensitive are our feet?
Not that sensitive I feel.

[LesiU]

You don't have 256 bits...as that would be about 1.16*10^77 of available values. 10^77? Is there a name for such a huge number?

You have 8 bit precision, which gives you 256 values...in that case, representing 80mm travel. So you can represent a 0.3125mm change in position.

With separate controller, you get 1024 values - 10bit precision. So you can represent a position change of 0.078125mm (almost 8-hundredth of a mm). But those are just plain values - a theory. In practice, there might be other important things which makes that 10bit controller option noticably better.

[CdnRacer]

I know what you're saying LesiU but just talking numbers doesn't mean much to me. It just sounds like a Leo Bodnar write up. I only know from my own tests that to me it makes no difference. Now if someone else were to post their laps with both resolutions showing a difference then that would maybe make me reconsider.

[LesiU]

That's why I said "might be" instead of "will be"

And the difference might not be in lap times. What might be better, is confidence during braking (more stable with more control) for example but as I said - that can be not because that better raw precision, but better controller in general.