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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: RF2 over LAN?

  1. #181
    John.Persson's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification 

    Registered
    Oct 2011
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    Sweden / Stockholm
    Yeah, rather see it locked down hard than open it up for the crackers.

    To bad for the ones who cant get internet access properly for their LAN partys, but that's life for you, UNFAIR
    Yours faithfully, Vrooom vroom!

  2. #182
    dwaltz's Avatar

     PC Specification 

    Newer Member
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Italy
    Quote Originally Posted by the_last_name_left View Post
    ah - of course. my bad, sorry. Now a dial-up IS part of a LAN - because of phoning home. lol
    your comments are plain silly: nobody said a dialup is part of a lan, it was stated that to play lan a internet connection was required at startup.

    So the question whether a dial-up is enough to start-up the game or a DSL is required is perfectly pertinent.

  3. #183
    dwaltz's Avatar

     PC Specification 

    Newer Member
    Oct 2010
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    Italy
    For me the real name would be fine, but if you can't do it at least make: one-license one - on-line identity.
    One should not be allowed to have multiple accounts such that you wreck on a site and in 5 minutes after banning you're in again with new a name.

    About the pricing for me it is perfectly fine: i agree with who said that if it saves you time it saves you money, and the MM taht saves you from the mess of differents tracks/mods versions is for that, and I like it cause I even asked for it in the past: aren't you tired of Meganes at Toban/Mills? How much did the mod mess limit the non-league/quick race variety?

  4. #184
    Lazza's Avatar

     PC Specification Where I race 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by dwaltz View Post
    your comments are plain silly: nobody said a dialup is part of a lan, it was stated that to play lan a internet connection was required at startup.
    Take it easy, he admitted his mistake and his 'dial-up IS part of a LAN' comment was obviously in the context of needing a net connection of some sort.


    Quote Originally Posted by dwaltz View Post
    aren't you tired of Meganes at Toban/Mills?
    I stopped public racing because of wreckers and what I figured was a higher percentage of cheating (at least in a league you have something to lose if caught, even if there are other leagues to move to), but I never got tired of racing Meganes at Mills, Toban, Essington, Orchard Lake, ... (even if I never made up that last 0.5-1s to catch the fast guys, but it was satisfying to knock the previous 4-5s off)

    I'm really hoping the extra accountability limited licenses will provide, and the easier mod/track matching, will revive the public racing scene. Most leagues are only actually racing for up to a few hours a day, so if they can run a server most of the rest of the time and have people coming in, getting to know the league, and providing lots of racing for the established members as well, we might be able to enjoy the same sort of 'pick up and play' aspect that iRacing can provide - without anywhere near the same cost, and without someone making a mistake and hitting you causing you to take extra time (and money) to get to the car or track you're dying to try...

    Combined with what could be a fantastic AI experience, we're all going to wish we had 35 hours in a day

  5. #185
    dwaltz's Avatar

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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazza View Post
    Take it easy, he admitted his mistake and his 'dial-up IS part of a LAN' comment was obviously in the context of needing a net connection of some sort.
    well I read the phoning home the other way around

    I stopped public racing because of wreckers and what I figured was a higher percentage of cheating (at least in a league you have something to lose if caught, even if there are other leagues to move to)
    single nick per license goes in the same direction: people will be afraid to get caught and banned forever

    but I never got tired of racing Meganes at Mills, Toban, Essington, Orchard Lake
    well i never liked meganes physics, but that's another story...

    ... we might be able to enjoy the same sort of 'pick up and play' aspect that iRacing can provide...
    exactly what 'm looking for here: cause I can't attend to leagues with regularity

    Combined with what could be a fantastic AI experience, we're all going to wish we had 35 hours in a day
    with CARS in beta, and who knows GTR3 next year I might end needing 72 :-)

  6.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #186
    Tim Wheatley's Avatar ISI Staff

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification @timwheatley1979 YouTube Channel Twitch/Streaming Channel Photo/Screenshot sharing profile 

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    USA (Central)
    Quote Originally Posted by Guineapiggy View Post
    Activation codes are very easily cracked. I can guarantee that every major commercial piece of software that verifies exclusively via a key check will be or ultimately has been cracked. ISI would not only be complicating their software more but shooting themselves in the foot by doing it.
    I've always said that for every coder making copy protection, there's a much more clever 13-year old waiting to break it. It's funny how everyone is focussing on Piracy as the reason. Gjon also said he did it because he wanted to. There's plenty of reasons, you can pick one that fits you, or not pick one. The software remains the same and will work the same no matter which reason you pick.

  7. #187
    dwaltz's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Wheatley View Post
    I've always said that for every coder making copy protection, there's a much more clever 13-year old waiting to break it...
    even if you clone and move physics data in memory, cript it with a changing key and inject from the server a new keys and chypher code dynamically once in a while?

  8. #188
    the_last_name_left's Avatar
     

    Registered
    Jul 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by dwaltz View Post
    your comments are plain silly: nobody said a dialup is part of a lan, it was stated that to play lan a internet connection was required at startup.

    So the question whether a dial-up is enough to start-up the game or a DSL is required is perfectly pertinent.
    The original question was worded such that its intent was vague, hence my original response. Once I realised what it actually meant, I said "of course-my bad".

    Moreover, ISI have said that a dialup (or some such connex) is a necessary part of a LAN - for rF2 at least. That's the novelty, and the real source of confusion.

  9.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #189
    Tim Wheatley's Avatar ISI Staff

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification @timwheatley1979 YouTube Channel Twitch/Streaming Channel Photo/Screenshot sharing profile 

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwaltz View Post
    even if you clone and move physics data in memory, cript it with a changing key and inject from the server a new keys and chypher code dynamically once in a while?
    Eventually, yes.

  10. #190
    Nightrat's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification 

    Newer Member
    Oct 2010
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    Austria
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Wheatley View Post
    ... You currently won't need an online account, a lapsed offline account or even to purchase rF2 at all to host a race via the matchmaker on the internet or LAN. ...
    Thats very good news!

  11. #191
    WKronthaler's Avatar
     

    New Member
    Nov 2011
    As i was involved at the beta team of RF1 and from there i think i know how the ISI team tickes - Just my thoughts about:

    I am totally sure that Gjon and the team are right when they want to save their investment. It is such a risk to produce games for such a small part of the market, you have to save the small marge if you want to be successful.
    And if the only way to ensure this is to route all multiplayer to the matchmaker service all of you have to deal with it. They surely do NOT have the big profit in their mind when they created that model.
    It is a good idea if dedicated servers will be remain free of any charge (I ran a server/league for my own a while). The small ammount every simrace has to pay after the 12/18 month is ok if the MM services are perfect.

    BUT on the other hand i know how really annoying it is when a race will be abandoned due to a MM server problem. So the success in league racing, or better over all because league racing IS the market for rfactor, depends on the reliability of the MM Servers. ISI better installs a couple of MM servers on every continent to do anything possible to reduce the risk of a lost connection to the MM server.

    I'm out of simracing since a few years, i just follow the rf2 development. Therefor i landed here Greetings to all who can remember on me.

    kind regards, Wolfgang

  12. #192
    NOxy's Avatar
     

    Newer Member
    Nov 2011
    Wow, I didn't think that my question would create so much discussion. All I was hoping for is a definite yes or no from somebody in the know - a developer response. I haven't seen any specifications on bandwidth required for 'validation' only.

    We live on the outskirts of the internet where dialup is still the norm rather than the exception and LAN gaming is the only option for most multiplayer games. The key decider here in respect to buying rF2 is; can you host a LAN game on a 56K dialup connection?

  13.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #193
    Tim Wheatley's Avatar ISI Staff

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    Quote Originally Posted by NOxy View Post
    Wow, I didn't think that my question would create so much discussion. All I was hoping for is a definite yes or no from somebody in the know - a developer response. I haven't seen any specifications on bandwidth required for 'validation' only.

    We live on the outskirts of the internet where dialup is still the norm rather than the exception and LAN gaming is the only option for most multiplayer games. The key decider here in respect to buying rF2 is; can you host a LAN game on a 56K dialup connection?
    The data isn't going through the 56k connection, just the setup of the server is.

  14. #194
    Chip's Avatar
     

    New Member
    Nov 2011

    Thumbs down

    I believe the correct term for this travesty is crippleware - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crippleware

    You want people to pay for something that should be enabled from the beginning. Why? You don't provide any meaningful extra service regarding LAN games as you should have when you start charging for it. You simply bundled the LAN option up with online gaming and statistics to incite a few extra users to buy the subscription every year. That's NOT an honest way of running business and frankly it's gonna drive more people away. Including myself.

    It's sad to see a title with such potential go awry.
    Lublana je najlepša, me ne zanima kok stane, ne?

  15. #195
    Kwik's Avatar

     PC Specification Where I race 

    Newer Member
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Like everyone else I was going to buy RF2 as soon as it came out but not anymore.I see no reason why I should have to pay ISI so I can join my leagues server.Now if it was 2006-2007 again I would gladly have paid for the extras.

  16. #196
    Lazza's Avatar

     PC Specification Where I race 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    The fact you two are so concerned about this is absolute proof that you understand what it all means and so will anyone else looking into it - there's no deception going on here. If you want to play online and don't want to spend the $13 a year, don't buy rFactor 2.

    You're not paying to join your own server - you're paying to play rFactor 2 online. If rFactor was an upfront cost of $120 with no further payment, you'd have the option to either get it or not. Now you have the option to either get it for online play, for offline play, or not at all. And if you think you might buy it for an all-inclusive $120 (considering it's for what should be a quality sim with many quality inclusions and hundreds of free addons in the longer term, I think many would) the good news is that same amount of money will cover you for nearly 6 years.

    (the predictable response is "well give me that option and don't make me have to access the service", but that's not what's being sold here. So if you don't like it, don't buy it. Again )

    If you don't want it, that's fine. But don't act like everyone else is being fooled and you've seen the light. I understand what it all means, and I'm fine with it. Let's all make our own decisions and be happy.

  17. #197
    the_last_name_left's Avatar
     

    Registered
    Jul 2011
    Crippleware? Yes, I tend to feel so too. But it isn't a charity, and when there's warez, what's the option? Anyway - that's how it is. Like it or lump it. It seems a reasonable compromise imo. At least it's it an open architecture, and that's the real deal, isn't it? You can either pay for that, and get it - or not pay and not get an open architecture. You rather pay CodeMasters? Come off it?

  18. #198
    SeKa's Avatar
     

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Germany - Munic
    It is so easy to say "if you donīt like it, donīt bla bla. Also rF1 was not a charity for both side. It was singularly to the scene. rF lived through the enthusiasm of the community, and the community lived for the infinity of rF. Not more or less. And this is why many people feel now sadly. It is nomore the familiar surroundings or the good old love, where the money was not worth. So, it is in most case nothing because of least 10 - 15 bucks...

  19. #199
    Lazza's Avatar

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    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    rFactor is still available (getting cheaper apparently) so people can continue to use it to their heart's content. rF2 works differently.

    It's so easy to say that because you only buy things when you want them - you don't buy a cheap car and then complain it doesn't have all the latest safety features and 600HP. If ISI has chosen to change the licensing system they have a reason for it (we could speculate, but who really knows, and some things we can't talk about for obvious reasons), so either you support them with it or you decide you don't like it and go without - stick to rF1 or maybe move to something else. They can't please everyone and they're not trying to - they're looking out for themselves, which I think is a better option than possibly continuing to lose money (assuming they are, and that's a reason for the change) and disappearing in 3 years.

    It's not about the money, I know, everyone keeps saying that, it's probably more about having to 'phone home' to do any online. And that's a change from rF1, and maybe a lot of people have to factor that into how they do things, and maybe a minority will technically find it very difficult to use rF2 for the things they use rF1 for - but people on dialup connections could race in rF1, and might not be able to in rF2, so things move on. If you are unable or unwilling to move to rF2, don't.

  20. #200
    Uff's Avatar

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    Oct 2010
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    Bologna, Italy
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    It's sad to see a title with such potential go awry.
    As it's already been said, without using MM you wouldn't be able to use LAN at all. So... is it better to have a proper online service, with less pirated copies of the game, less mismatches and so on or would it be better to have the same mess we have in rF1 and not being able to run online anymore due to the huge fragmentation of the community?

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