I wouldn't be against this, but not concerned either way.
I like the idea of everyone using real names, but given all the different ways people can purchase the product, there is no effective way to ensure this happens every time. However, with an online account, we get a lot closer to making the experience less anonymous.
The issue for me IS money.
I'm happy to buy the game.
I'm happy to pay for updates.
I don't wish to pay to use a service that I don't want, to achieve what I was doing for free in RF1.
I don't wish to pay three times (3 computers, so 3 accounts I guess) to use a service i don't want, to achieve the same as I was in RF1 for free.
I agree it's not much money to spend, but only if you're spending it on a service you actually want.
But I guess the choice is mine. I either pay up myself or charge my friends to use my other PC's or don't pay and don't play.
I know and indeed hope this game will be a success whatever they do, but I really hope they relent on the LAN issue.
I suppose PC to PC with a crossover cable has the same issues?
pitkin, if you wish to play on the 3 computers simultaneously, then you will have to buy 3 accounts, if you want to play one at a time, it is 1 account.
Tim, it's not silly and ultimately it is insulting that you think it is so. I have zero problem with ISI watching out for itself and I have no problem with paying the fee for the service (because it is ultimately peanuts). I have a problem with the fact that ISI has no plan to allow those who have paid for their product to continue using their product should your requirements (matchmaker) for online play disappear. Or heaven forbid ISI fail. Or get bought out. Or any other of a multitude of reasons why multiplayer could up and disappear and I'm left with a only a mode (single player) that I don't care about.
I think you completely missed the point, Litchfield
Besides, even if for some reason ISI would be abandoning rFactor 2, then they would probably sell ownership to it's matchmaker - why not get some extra money from product you're dropping anyway? Someone even from outside simracing industry would probably be glad to take over and collect $13 every year from us just for keeping the service running
Hell, I would
I hope that beta gets here soon to keep people occupied, because they are obviously bored enough to think up new problems every day
It's not about ISI abandoning rF2. It is about the fact that they don't have a plan should MM go down (for whatever reason) and the community be left with no multiplayer mode. That is the whole point.
Compare it to WoW shutting down. I'd have invested not only time but money in a game. One day it is going to end, and people are going to be left with software they can't use. Now if that is because a bigger and better WoW comes out then it doesn't quite matter and the same would be true if the reason I can't play rf2 is because rf3 has come out. But the problem is rf2 is basically unplayable should matchmaker not exist. At least it is unplayable to me because I couldn't care less about single player. I couldn't even LAN at my own home if matchmaker goes down. That is IMO a serious flaw. Either take the game entirely subscription (like iRacing or WoW) or don't go with any subscriptions at all. Don't give me half a game and not have a backup plan (or other way) for me to utilize that half of the game should something go wrong on your end.
Surprisingly, I have a great many things in my life that I can continue to enjoy, legally and even in their original intended fashion, long after the person responsible for designing and/or providing it has moved on to other endeavors, and even in some cases shuffled off this mortal coil altogether (may they rest in peace).
You seem to have interpreted the question to be rhetorical, or to espouse some foreign concept that is incompatible with your worldview. And maybe it is.
But you seem to instead be implying that your past efforts should be rewarded indefinitely and even perhaps in perpetuity. This is inconsistent with every pattern of economic exchange of which I am aware.
No one is begrudging ISI for looking out for itself. The disingenuousness of your position thus far is that you pretend that there is only one way for ISI to look out for itself, and that is at the expense of some of our long-standing consumer freedoms.
I assert that it is perfectly reasonable and feasible for ISI to not just survive but to thrive, without resorting to an attempt to redefine the nature of the business transaction that it makes with its customers.
I realize that the gaming consumer has an annoying habit of wanting to own what it purchases, but this is not an inherently unfair expectation that we bring to the bargain. Fortunes have been made, and are currently and regularly being made, within the confines of this premise.
So, I say that if you want to continue to get paid, then ISI need do no more than continue to develop software that people consider valuable. But please don't confuse rF2 for some magic bottomless pot of gold, from which you are entitled to a lifetime supply of financial benefits.
And please cease the charade that this is somehow a choice between having to pay repeatedly for the privilege of racing online or condemning ISI to bankruptcy.
i read first 5 pages and saw that posts are all same, running in circle..Do all you new posters in this topic read more then just the last page? Unbelievable...
"classic" lan way is very simple to pass in terms of piracy and online gaming, you could drive over net thru hamachi or something with just simple cracked game..it has to do with having to connect to MM to use LAN. Why should anyone require an online subscription account to connect to LAN? that was the entire argument since day 1. And people disregard that and keep going back to the money.
i understand that that's primary reason for this way of integrating lan..
i only hope that changing server settings and other things will be more practical, finding and sorting servers, faster and not disappearing from list every second time..
Tim thanks for the post, pretty much answers everything.
I do apologise for the posts about hacking, it was more as an example as to why the previous system did not work from ISI point of view (loss of income).
If, for whatever reason, rF2's service was to stop, you stop and move onto something else, and just use the offline portion if you want. You might lose some or all of your $13 for that year, and maybe that would annoy you, but it's no worse than some appliance or device breaking out of warranty - you lose your money and move on. Tried buying one of the recent CM F1 titles? How did that leave you feeling?
If TryMedia disappeared, you wouldn't be able to reinstall rF1 at all. I know some people didn't buy rF until the DVD came out for this very reason, and that's their choice. If the rF2 system worries you so much, don't buy it.
I just don't understand why people think they can demand what's being offered to them. If ISI really thought 3 people would buy rF2 with this system, they wouldn't be using it. I think it's fair to say most people looking forward to rF2 are happy with the system (I'm avoiding quoting the actual payment figures, since I might get the "it's not about the money" response) so it'll work for them and it'll work for ISI.
As I've said elsewhere, you can always stay with rF1 instead. No one's keeping you here.
Nobody is complaining about that.
No one complained about that, either.
People would rather think, that with rFactor 2 they will get all they had in rFactor 1 and more and that's the way their expectations were shaped.
But it doesn't really have to work that way and we need to accept that. We actualy ARE getting more, but not all we could wish for and with something more ISI wishes from us. If that's the kind of offer they can present to us, I'm still onboard with it - it's not like they want me to pay "per-mod", take away everything when I don't pay subscription or anything like that.
I am saying that if ISI needs to take extreme measures to protect us legitimate players from these hackers and from piracy, then good on ISI, thats whats needed and if we have to go through this MM stuff due to it, then great, that for me is the discussion ender, thats where I draw the line and say. ISI is right to do this method, they are worried about piracy, they are worried about how it affects us legitimate supporters of ISI, so there you go people, ISI is looking out for us.
That is the whole premise of my posts and the fact that you're talking to me as if I am mentioning of performing piracy myself is insulting. I suggest you read and comprehend my posts better next time just like you advise many of us to do. I mean no disrespect to you Tim, you're a great guy, have done so much for ISI, but to me your post felt like you were accusing me of performing and encouraging piracy myself. Gjon is an inspiration for me, he is one of the nicest people you'll ever meet in your life. But I'm sorry, I find it hard to believe that we're not allowed to be on ISI's side when it comes to piracy. In any case, as you have requested, I respect your request and will no longer talk about piracy. *tips hat*
Last edited by Petros Mak; 11-04-11 at 08:30 PM.
Petros, like 'owning' the game, you're on ISI's forums so you have to abide by what they say. Absolute freedom of speech isn't a right on someone's forum.
Furthermore, fine I won't discuss about the possibility of piracy, that's a given since it was asked by a higher up, but don't go posting like I was promoting it and encouraging it either. Get my drift? In any case, I hope laws become even more strict for hacker. I hope they become so strict that they end up hanging every hacker they find publically. That may stop those idiots from performing such actions and ruining things for the rest of us.
Tim wasn't questioning your ethics, and no one else who reads and understands your posts will either. The point is he doesn't want you discussing it at all... yet you keep going.
I don't use the offline portion. In my mind, I am essentially paying to purchase a copy of the game with the express intent of using it almost exclusively online. In fact the only time I use the game offline is to practice for online races when the private server which hosts our league happens to be down. See there is the big difference. When the private server our league is on goes down, I can still go race at another league or publicly. With the new system, I don't have that option. Matchmaker goes down and I have essentially lost access to an essential part of the product I have purchased.