Well, I`m sorry if I misrepresented Mak`s words. It`s not about money (if no more than $100) for me also (actually $100 is my monthly pension, but anyway...). I also do not like idea to pay for connection to my league server. And payment itself is troublesome experience for people without paypal accounts in exUSSR countries. I`d rather pay only one time but higher price.
And this need to yearly renew subscription will certainly reduce numbers in our league. May be not much, but reduce. Because somebody will forget to renew, or somebody will decide to not pay anymore for minor reasons, whereas if he had unlimited license he could come back easily.
Hi Gjon and all. Thank for taking the time to reply to the thread. I didn't think I'd open such a can of worms here.
Forgive me for my question, I'm not so computer savvy as most of you guys.
With RF1, I pay for the game once and can install on multiple machines thanks to the Trymedia activations. I currently have it installed on 3 PC's at home, and run LAN races over a dedicated server. Before anyone says 'you can afford 3 pc's so what's $13 year?' Only one is what I'd call a good PC the others are my old machines, the oldest being about 8 years old.
Now, to achieve the same thing with RF2, I will have to buy the game 3 times, and pay 3 lots of subscriptons after the first year?
I could ask my friends to chip in I suppose but it wouldn't feel right expecting them to pay to play games at my house. And they may not be keen anyway, paying that money for a couple of hours of friday night gaming for games they don't own.
I'm not interested in joining league. The last time I was in one, the skills of even the slowest drivers made me look very bad. Me and my friends can have some nice close racing at home without having to invest loads of time, which I dont have, learning circuits and perfecting setups, etc which I'd need to do if I was to join a league.
I wouldn't be childish here and say you've lost a customer or anything, I've had an Immense amount of enjoyment out of RF1 and 100% intend to get RF2 when it arrives, if only for racing against AI offline. But I do feel dissapointment that the LAN feature will no longer be freely available for the less serious racers here.
i wouldnt worry mate...you wont be able to run it on your 8yr old pc anyway
Yeah. I mean think of it this way. We're being told that the MM is done to protect rF2 from being hacked and pirated, that's all fine and good, that's all well and dandy for online public servers. But how does that affect private servers and LAN? In rF1 you could run a server without even purchasing rF, but you needed rF to connect to that server to play on it if you wanted to play on it and not just be a host. In rF2 you need to pay to be able to host a server or run a LAN. Why? Pirating rF2 will be done so for the objective to play offline and with mods without paying for the game. They still won't be able to play on public online servers, so how does piracy affect private servers? it doesn't, and the whole, "we're limiting IP and LAN connections to MM to protect rF2 against piracy" is far fetched in my opinion.
The only reason this thread is going round in circles is because so many keep thinking that we're complaining about the money, we're not complaining about the money. We're trying to figure out how and why piracy affects private servers and LAN games. By allowing IP and LAN connections to remain possible without MM, it is no different to rF1 for Private servers. But restricting offline play and online public servers to MM is fine by me as that is a logical move, a pirated game can still play offline so if you make that part rely on MM along with online public servers, then that is a fair option.
Players will still have to buy a legitimate copy of the game. There is one very perfect way this can be done.
1) Allow LAN and IP connections to be available to you ONLY after you have activated your game and online account. If you don't activate the game online (pirated copy), then the LAN and Multiplayer (Public Rooms and Connect via IP) options should be non accessible.
Pirated copies cannot fake an online account, they will only be good for offline and mods. So by making those modes only accessible by activating your online account legitimately, that saves ISI from the piracy issue for playing online or connecting to servers etc. Once you have validated your account online and those options become available. Even if your subscription ends, your ability to join LAN and IP shouldn't be gone. A file can go into the system registry to determine that those modes are unlocked, and it won't be hackable.
If you format, all you have to do is re-activate your game and as it does its online check to make sure your key is right, it can also check if you have previously unlocked LAN and IP modes so it can re-unlock them during re-activations.
Very easy, very simple, not hackable, not confusing. Its so simple.
In any case, the point of the matter is mute. ISI will do it as they want and the community will have to either accept it or move to something else. Each individual is responsible for their decision. I do NOT like this method in the way its being portrayed by ISI pre-release of the game. I will however see how it works once the game is released and decide from there if I will continue with the subscription.
dont assume you're by yourselves doing that mate...
Originally Posted by Nibo
[suc]but we are talking about ISI with a long time proven track record, i think its worth the risk[/suc]
Because once activated it is very easy to replicate for a cracked version. So it would not stop cracking in the slightest....not much does. The crack for rFactor 1 allowed online play without any issues and that was meant to be activated as well, install original game, replace EXE, online play open with everything else.
Also, can you point out the post that says you will have to buy the game to load a dedicated server? I just cant find the thing anymore.
Post #61 says pretty clearly
"There was no mention at all of the dedicated server, so let me put that straight; there's no hosting charge. The only thing which applies to hosting really is that your server will be connected to (by drivers) via our matchmaker. You currently won't need an online account, a lapsed offline account or even to purchase rF2 at all to host a race via the matchmaker on the internet or LAN."
So all you have to do is have multiple accounts for the PC's that want to connect to the LAN....which isnt too much to ask. We did it with rF1 even though we COULD have activated the same number on 5+ of the machines easily.
Last edited by Slothman; 11-04-11 at 03:40 AM.
Yo, lovely people. If your internet connection is ****ty, you have no business in online gaming. You just ruin other people's game with your laaaaggg. ISI should provide ping stats in the matchmaking, so they can be filtered out from the races.
Also hardware benchmark test, before you let people into matchmaking environment.
Last edited by Tim Wheatley; 11-07-11 at 05:22 PM.
Tims Quote: If you want to run a LAN with your kid at home, great, launch a server and just have two online accounts for you and kid to login with.
Originally Posted by Slothman
Last Paragraph: http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.ph...ll=1#post15746
Now sure this talks about LAN, but clearly states you need two online accounts to even play lan at home with two comps. I am assuming that this also stands for Dedicated servers requiring an account. I could be wrong there though so I lift up my hand and blame myself first and foremost if I am.
@Jim Beam: The Hamachi is an issue yes for private servers and LAN ONLY if ISI continue with this method. If they make running a server and connecting to it without the need for MM, then Hamachi will be useless. All they could do with it is use it to hack the game for offline play which they will no doubt do so anyway with MM, they will still not be able to use Hamachi to create a fake MM account and access the online public rooms. At least that's the way I know it, I could be wrong though and if I am, then I accept being wrong, I just find it a bit strange that its no problem for 90% of games out there but all of a sudden it is for ISI.
Originally Posted by Jim Beam
I forgot to post this when I first saw the questions about the fee for Lan/IP....
Haha! Jim, it's never me playing on the 8 year old PC . It copes surprisingly well with RF1 actually. I guess I could have used it to run the dedeicated server on if it struggled to play the game.
Hope they reconsider (they won't) this LAN thing. I'd be happy to buy more than 1 copy of the game if I needed to, but I really don't want to be paying for multiple subsriptions that will barely get used.
I see. Well then, guess the best thing to do is wait and see. I think this thread and all the confusion has gone on long enough lol. Lets just wait and see how it goes. It could end up being the best thing we've ever had, and it could end up being the biggest blunder in sim-racing history. Although I doubt the latter. Thanks again for all the constructive replies and the info. Nice to be able to chat with some like minded intellectual individuals.
Originally Posted by Slothman
Jeez carrful champ....last time I got called that all hell broke loose and the wardens where called
Originally Posted by Petros Mak
Sorry to be BOLD guys..
But if you cant afford 13USD a year find yourself another hobby.
Or worst keep playing the cracked version of rF1 like many people that say they love rFActor but use a ilegal copy does.
Next kid, who answering for only the last few posts without understanding.
Go away or invest some time to read whole thread and to understand what we are talking about, please.
If you want to play forever for free use rF1.
If you want to play rF2 online, you need to pay.
Them's your choices. You makes your decisions.
First of all, I`m not playing rF for free. I bought it.
Second, I plan on buying beta and continuing to pay yearly if I like first 18 months of online. For me it would depend on easiness (or even availability in my region) of payment process itself and amount of active people in our league who will be able to do the payment regularly. Thats main concern for now. One time payment with higher price looks like more easy option. But I must not talk about it on and on. I can see its getting annoying for ISI.
The only valid argument in this thread is that you can't have a LAN game if your LAN doesn't have internet connectivity. Other wise it is totally about the money. If the fee was $0, would we still have this thread? Well maybe for those without internet that want to do LAN games. But very few people in this thread have focused on that scenario which leaves me thinking it really is about the money.
Originally Posted by MaXyM
First i would like to thank ISI and their developers to give us the oportunity of having so much wakening nights along all this past years.
In name of SimRacingPortugal and all our 2000 members we are thankfull for rf1 and all the modders work along this years.
I read this forum for some time now and today i had this need of register to make 1 post.
Its about this pay/not pay question.
In this issue im talking in my own name and not in SRP name.
I personnaly dont agree with this new system of payment.
One of the biggest (not to say the only) things that made RF1 so popular was the type of community it had (have).
We all were immersed in a "free" community.Modders work for free to give something free to the community.It was tracks,it was cars,it was addons,it was so many things.
With this new type of system all of that will be lost.The biggest thing in rf1 will be lost.
We all love to download mods,install them,make skins here,make championships there,invite this member,invite that member......we all were free to decide whatever about rf1.That was the spirit in rf1 community and it was what i was expecting to have in rf2.But that will not happen.If we like a 2006 v1.0 MOD we drive that mod...and not the newest update.
We all agree that piracy is a huge concern and that company´s need to look care for their bussiness.But it wasnt much more polite to the ISI followers to buy the game (whatever prize) and have no more worries about payments? The ID check could be made without year after year payments.
What will we have more by paying for a game and paying again for online option? Will piracy end? Guess not.Will rammers end? Guess not.
Im not concerned about payment (i pay more for 3 marlboros and thats for 3 days)....im concerned for what community type will we have in couple of months.
With all the expectation over last years im sure ISI would earn big bucks without this.
In the end im sure rf2 will be a great simulator but i suspect it will not be a legend one like rf1.
Good luck and hope see you all in some "ISI" servers....or ISI will not have any official servers for people who pay online and instead force people to pay for online and for renting dedicated servers?
Again i say,its my personal opinion and not "our community" opinion.
Good races for all!!!
Last edited by Valter Cardoso; 11-04-11 at 10:01 AM.