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Thread: SimRacingPL Shader Pack - discussion

  1. #141
    xoa's Avatar
     

    Registered
    Mar 2011
    Well, for the public I won't release it. Like K Szczech said, the missing agreements is the problem. I do this work for our private hillclimb league.

    Mid'Ohio is just my test-track.
    Last edited by xoa; 04-27-12 at 02:57 AM.

  2. #142
    nothke's Avatar
     

    Registered
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Zrenjanin, Serbia
    Hay K, Lemax and I are finishing a new Yugo mod that we have built from scratch and we would like to have the permission to publish it with your shaders. We have tested it with your shaders and it looks fantastic =)






  3. #143
    K Szczech's Avatar
     

    Registered
    Oct 2010
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    Poland
    Looks nice Go ahead with shaders.


    By the way - if this is just one car mod, then it shouldn't be too much work to put shaders on rims, tyres, dashboard, or even play with light effects and cockpit window shader.

    Carpaint and glass make the most difference, but it's only tip of the iceberg - other stuff can also help for more complete look
    And of course, you can save your materials in a database and then simply reuse them on other cars.

    If you find good settings, then it's only a matter of similar texturing on cars (especially similar level of brightness in specular maps).


    PS. I know you've built some other stuff from scratch aswell, so feel free to use these shaders on your other projects aswell if you want.
    Perhaps you'll find shaders with tone mapping an interesting solution for tracks.
    Last edited by K Szczech; 05-02-12 at 09:17 AM.
    SRPL Shader Pack v0.92 is now available for modders: announcements / discussion
    "Be kind whenever possible. It's always possible." - Dalai Lama

  4. #144
    Lancelot0501's Avatar
     

    Newer Member
    May 2012
    Hey K,

    I've tried out your tool on my fantasy track project but I'v encountered some problem.
    My first problem is everything is black in the editor. Couldn't solve it by myself, but it's not that big problem.
    Second problem is that after importing my AIW file, setting up the diagram and road materials and then exporting my track, in rF, the whole track is covered by rubber and skids. Don't know what I did wrong because I followed your instructions in the manual.
    Could you help me please?

  5. #145
    K Szczech's Avatar
     

    Registered
    Oct 2010
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    Poland
    As for everything being black - check if you have texture path set properly in project options. Also, tool will not look for textures in subfolders - only in specified folder.

    As for the road - it's hard to tell without any specific information or files attached.
    Have you modified thexe exported GMT files in any way? Are you sure rFactor loads these exported files and not original ones? Have exported files been edited with other tools?

    All GMT files exported by my tool will work in rFactor but not with any other tools.
    SRPL Shader Pack v0.92 is now available for modders: announcements / discussion
    "Be kind whenever possible. It's always possible." - Dalai Lama

  6. #146
    boern69's Avatar
     

    Newer Member
    Oct 2010
    @K Szczech
    I noticed games like gt5 shift or pccars have a lot more sunlight and shadow on the track (and cockpit)

    Is there a way to get this into rfactor ( in good quality) as well ?

  7. #147
    MaXyM's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Facebook profile @@MaXyM_SRPL 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Prague / CR
    Maybe I will try to answer cause I worked on cockpits a last few months. Results of my work you may see on Post Your Screenshots thread: http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/99-Post-your-Screenshots!?p=63823&viewfull=1#post63823

    Basically, there is no way to get result found in Cars or Shift. It's because rF1 cant cast self shadows into cockpit. What you can see in most modern titles, is bright light (from sun) cut off by cockpit elements casting self shadow. That's where contrast comes from. It's impossible in rF1. Period.

    However you may improve "feeling" while driving rF1 cars. I have plans to write some kind of tutorial of how create complex materials for cockpits using SRPL ShaderPack. But I try to write a few points now:

    1. At first do not use shader with ToneMapping. It makes things very bright when sun is behind of a car. It is unnatural in case of cars with roof. It may fit more for OW cars or cabrios.
    2. I used Unrestricted Shaders x1.0 to get results you can see on screenshots.
    3. Think about where direct sunlight is operating at most - usually under under windshield, close to lower edge door's windows
    4. Do not forget about sky reflecting in cockpit. It will be the same places as listed in #3. But to make it visible you have to give a lot of Fresnel base which affects also specular reflection. You have to tune it up.
    5. Best way is to set spec texture for most exposed areas to high values (suggest about 240 avarage). The rest may be way darker.
    6. Then set material without specular lighting (with texture but both spec scale set to 0) - to get required result of sky reflection.
    7. Then add specular reflection - note - more specular (especialy more spec power), more glossy material you get, especially valid for close-up of material with normal map pattern. For matte materials like alcantara, it is enough to use only one specular, and set it very wide (low specular power).
    8. Tune up specular parameters to get as bright result as acceptable when racing against the sun. Check it at 2pm, 4pm, and 5:30pm. Note, that more Fresnel scale - more changing reflection while sun changing position or car changing pitch (it's base rule of Fresnel effect, intensity of reflection depends on reflection angle). To get always a lot of reflection, I suggest to use low fresnel scale. it is not realistic, but without this "trick" you get hard reflection at dawn but too low afternoon. Unfortunately without HDR it cannot be done another way to get visible reflection of sky at noon and not over-brighten reflection later afternoon

    In parallel, you may (you have to) mask internal areas of interior by making corresponding parts of specular texture darker. A lot darker . It will limits reflections inside of car (it is not quite real but very close to what we can feel while sun light is cut out by roof and other car elements)

    What you have to remember (I made such mistakes so I will share with my experience)
    1. Do not try to get more diffused reflection by lowering fresnel base too much and then applying high specular to get some light reflection. Firstly because it is not real. IRL if material reflects direct light, it also reflects surroundings and sky (KS words). So, better is to use most blurred cube, set some real fresnel base and some low specular scale. Second reason of this approach is calculation precision. In case of using 0.001 fresnel base, you will never get maximum (white) reflection doesn't matter what high spec scale you set. It is due to limitations of floating point calculations (especially with low precision like 8 bits used in that case)

    BTW I have to make two notes:
    Note, that SRPL Shader pack allows to create complex materials with two sets of diffuse/normal maps. Documentation says that first set is dedicated for main colour and second set for details. But it is not clear enough if it is allowed to use it in reverse order. Diagram says: yes. But watch out: second set of textures is not rendered when lit by another cars!!! This issue wasn't been known when writing manual I believe. I prepared some cockpit materials as AO texture in 1st set (texture expanded over whole object), and color pattern (ie alcantara, carbon) in second. Under lights I saw only AO, but not material texture. I had to recalculate UVs for all textures, which allows to use pattern in first set and AO-in second one - fortunately Editor provides such feature so it was not a case any more. Now only AO disappears when lit by other cars which is acceptable.

    Another note that the same normal map texture used in second set gives slightly softer result. It is done intentionally (some maths) and difference is not such significant. But you have to know about it.

    with regards
    Last edited by MaXyM; 05-09-12 at 07:01 AM.

  8. #148
    boern69's Avatar
     

    Newer Member
    Oct 2010
    THX MaXyM
    very nice screenies and explanation

    Will try to test some tipps of yours but seems to be a lot of work and time (very complex).

    cheers

  9. #149
    K Szczech's Avatar
     

    Registered
    Oct 2010
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    Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by MaXyM View Post
    ...I suggest to use low fresnel scale. it is not realistic...
    Why not?
    Some materials may have similar reflectivity at different viewing angles.

    Check this out: LINK

    Note that aluminium's reflectivity actually drops, only to raise at the end.
    It's not currently possible to create a curve exactly like this one in the editor. I don't suppose anyone would go so far with his materials. Besides, with reflectivity raising only near edges, you would end up with aliasing artifacts.
    Fresnel parameters are there to allow recreating general look of a material.

    If I wanted to go into details I would create curve editor instead of fresnel parameters. Shaders allready can support any curve.
    I just didn't see lots of modders going over internet looking for material reflectivity curves just to create some model for rFactor Without proper lighting and shadows it would be pointless to go that far anyway.
    Last edited by K Szczech; 05-09-12 at 02:47 PM.
    SRPL Shader Pack v0.92 is now available for modders: announcements / discussion
    "Be kind whenever possible. It's always possible." - Dalai Lama

  10. #150
    MaXyM's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Facebook profile @@MaXyM_SRPL 

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    Prague / CR
    I suggested that for the purpose - for shading most light exposed materials like underwindow surfaces (ie dashboard). With "correct" Fresnel scale reflection, intensity would (and will) change significantly with daytime and also with changing car pitch. Nothing wrong with this excepting, that you must limit this effect to get no over-exposing. You have to options:
    - lower specular scale - then you got very weak sun reflection ie at 13pm
    - lower specular texture - you may set up more sun reflection but you will loose sky reflection.

    So, I said it is a "trick" which helps to get required amount of reflection in all conditions in rF environment (without HDR/tone mapping). Anyhow I found no other solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by K Szczech View Post
    I just didn't see lots of modders going over internet looking for material reflectivity curves just to create some model for rFactor Without proper lighting and shadows it would be pointless to go that far anyway.
    Yeah.. That's why you should prepare curves for 10-20 common materials not asking them (including me) for impossible To be honest I don't know till know what Fresnel power should be used for which substance...
    Last edited by MaXyM; 05-09-12 at 03:15 PM.

  11. #151
    K Szczech's Avatar
     

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    Oct 2010
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    Poland
    I don't know either

    Experienced 3d artist would know and I'm not an experienced 3d artist. I could write very advanced 3d engine on my own, but I'm not sure if I would have the right touch when comes to creating textures and materials for it

    Understanting helps of course - you know what to look for when observing materials in real life, but it's not like people who created 3D Studio are telling artists what to do and how to do it, right? Neither does Adobe tell anyone how to make good artwork with Photoshop.
    Artists know these things allready and all they need is good tool that make things possible.


    It's not the job of tool developers to teach artists their art. It's the other way around actually - it's the artist that tell tool developers what they need.
    For example - when ID Software licensed their game engine to other companies (and that was a top quiality engine of course), they got feedback about material properties from artists working in these companies. They said that set of material properties is not sufficient and they cannot achieve every kind of material appearance they would like to.


    I will of course help with anything related to shader pack or tools - technical issues, doubts, etc. I'm here to help with that, not to tell people how to create artwork.
    SRPL Shader Pack v0.92 is now available for modders: announcements / discussion
    "Be kind whenever possible. It's always possible." - Dalai Lama

  12. #152
    MaXyM's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Facebook profile @@MaXyM_SRPL 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Prague / CR
    I got your point. I know also that real artists just know what result they want to get - just know how it works in world around us.
    But sim word is not dedicated for artistic expression - it should simulate real world. That's why I'm asking for values which corresponds to real world ones. And you are most appropriate person for this I know.
    Last edited by MaXyM; 05-09-12 at 07:37 PM.

  13. #153
    Lancelot0501's Avatar
     

    Newer Member
    May 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by K Szczech View Post
    As for everything being black - check if you have texture path set properly in project options. Also, tool will not look for textures in subfolders - only in specified folder.

    As for the road - it's hard to tell without any specific information or files attached.
    Have you modified thexe exported GMT files in any way? Are you sure rFactor loads these exported files and not original ones? Have exported files been edited with other tools?

    All GMT files exported by my tool will work in rFactor but not with any other tools.
    My textures can be found in materialtool2/HV_source directory and this is what I have in my project file:
    hv_project.txt

    After exporting the track, I've just copied the files into my track's SRPL subdir and edited the scn file like this:
    SearchPath=.
    SearchPath=HighVoltage
    SearchPath=HighVoltage\SRPL
    //--------------------------------------------------------

    //MASFile=HighVoltage.mas

    So it will only look for gmts and textures in directories and not in mas files. Did not edit them with other tools. After seeing there's a problem with it, I've just ran your materialtool to see in the .xml if every texture is correct.
    Here's my log file:
    log.zip

  14. #154
    MaXyM's Avatar

     rFactor 2 Validated PC Specification Facebook profile @@MaXyM_SRPL 

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Prague / CR
    There are only two directories seeking for textures:
    image/textures/ - global shared directory for MaterialTool. It contains provided with MaterialTool textures like cubemaps. I suggest to put here your own shared textures
    directory set in project settings - may point to whatever directory in your filesystem. But if placed inside MaterialTool home directory, path is saved relatively to this homedir which makes moving/copying a project easier.

    BTW You can set SearchPath in scn file to any directory you want, even outside rfactor home dir. For example
    SearchPath=.
    SearchPath=HighVoltage
    SearchPath=D:\Programs\MaterialTool2\Projects\Your Track\textures

    BUT:
    when using "Export all" feature, Material tool will export every needed texture into destination directory. So it is no need to set search path as in example above because all gmts and textures will end up in the same place. Also you have to use "Export all" feature when using unrestricted or tonemapping shaders (to replace all stock shaders by new ones in all gmts) - so as yo can see, it is not a case.

    In other word, place all source files (gmt/textures) in some project directory (best place is somewhere inside MT dir), then export it into rF directory structure. I found this approach easiest and most comfy.
    Last edited by MaXyM; 05-10-12 at 07:06 AM.

  15. #155
    K Szczech's Avatar
     

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    Oct 2010
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    That's not the problem. Log says that shaders failed to link - I need to look into it.
    SRPL Shader Pack v0.92 is now available for modders: announcements / discussion
    "Be kind whenever possible. It's always possible." - Dalai Lama

  16. #156
    kosmo1982's Avatar

     PC Specification 

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    Jan 2012
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    Poland
    Hi, great tooll!
    I managed to apply road shaders correctly but i dont understand how skidmars are placed on track. (i have no modding knowledge.
    I was thinking its done with this 3d AI line but no matter what changes i make to it skidmarks are always in the same place. So sometimes i have them in turn and sometimes not...

  17. #157
    K Szczech's Avatar
     

    Registered
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Yes, you need to load AIW file but it will only determine the racing line, not skidmarks strength.

    To control strength you should manually edit graph in road surface editor (see pages 65 and 66 in the manual). Black line on the graph only shows you what's in AIW file, but does not affect the look of road shader. It's the yellow line that decides everything and it's flat by default - you need to edit it.

    And of course I assume you have selected all road materials? To make sure use "highlight mat" option and see if materials cover entire track.
    And while editing, you may want to use "copy all button" to propagate settings from material you're editing to all the rest.
    SRPL Shader Pack v0.92 is now available for modders: announcements / discussion
    "Be kind whenever possible. It's always possible." - Dalai Lama

  18. #158
    kosmo1982's Avatar

     PC Specification 

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    Jan 2012
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    Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by K Szczech View Post
    It's the yellow line that decides everything and it's flat by default - you need to edit it.

    And of course I assume you have selected all road materials? To make sure use "highlight mat" option and see if materials cover entire track.
    Yep i selected all. I already was making some changes to the red/yellow racing line but couldnt see any changes in where skids were placed. Will work on it some more. At least i know for sure what i need to do Thx a lot

  19. #159
    K Szczech's Avatar
     

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    Changes won't be visible untill you press "Generate UV" button - they're not shown in realtime.

    Of course when you export your track then it doesn't matter if you ever pressed "Generate UV" - export will always be up to date with graph.
    SRPL Shader Pack v0.92 is now available for modders: announcements / discussion
    "Be kind whenever possible. It's always possible." - Dalai Lama

  20. #160
    kosmo1982's Avatar

     PC Specification 

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    ok, skidmarks show properly in Materialtool2. But after export, in game they are in completely different places - always the same places no matter what i do in material tool. So my guess is im doing something wrong with packacking files after export.
    Im doing this on ISI's Brianza.
    I put GMT files into Brianza.MAS.
    TGA & DDS files into BrianzaMaps.MAS
    All other changes i make are shown in game (road shaders, new materials like glass, vegetation) so my guess would be im doing something wrong with this file "aiwMAP.TGA" but not sure what:P

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