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View Full Version : get rid of all views except for COCKPIT



coops
03-21-12, 06:47 PM
ITS A SIMULATOR, not a console game.... does any 1 drive sitting on the bonnet or bumper noooooooooooooooo
so get real and only give them cockpit view.. IMO

MOD43
03-21-12, 06:53 PM
-1 for that

Jim Beam
03-21-12, 06:54 PM
well ask your league admin to tick the cockpit view only box on the server...the choice is already there for you to have

Tim Wheatley
03-21-12, 06:57 PM
ITS A SIMULATOR, not a console game.... does any 1 drive sitting on the bonnet or bumper noooooooooooooooo
so get real and only give them cockpit view.. IMO
You have the option to enforce cockpit only on servers.

Just thinking purely financially, it makes sense for even the best simulator to have some scale ability, just to get those extra sales. We have driver aids for the same reason. Some people do this for fun.

bastins
03-21-12, 08:23 PM
Definitely gonna gave to disagree with this one. Options are always, always, a good thing. Those who want to play a certain way can, and those who want to play the other way can.

Vinceton
03-21-12, 09:50 PM
ITS A SIMULATOR, not a console game.... does any 1 drive sitting on the bonnet or bumper noooooooooooooooo
so get real and only give them cockpit view.. IMO

I don't know man. Occasionally, I do drive with my head out the window, and sometimes even the sunroof. Hell, I might even do a rodeo drift if I'm feeling up to it.

Pits
03-22-12, 12:06 AM
Some people do this for fun.

It always amuses me that the average drivers want it as real as it gets and the good drivers want the fun, mind you you always get the purists who are the best drivers that want it their way and that's normally the real way. It's always frustrated me, at work its real, home is real, "She" is real the one place I escape too (RFactor) they want it real, can't win (smile), Go race on a track if you want real, and die a terrible long death most likely.

Vinceton
03-22-12, 01:10 AM
Hmm... I don't think the other side wants it "arcadish", therefore fun. It's just that we all have a different perception of reality. Then there's the limitation of the virtual camera. The majority aren't even aware of those limitations. I'll just sum it up by saying, virtual cam = pin hole, real eyeballs = lens.

In a real car, the top edge of the windshield is just outside the edges of my eyewear. That's about 30cm beyond the edges of my 50" screen. In virtual cockpit, it's inside the frames of my eyewear. I can't ever get that properly aligned without putting dash/horizon/fov completely out of whack.

Having said all that, I still use cockpit 100% of the time. But I seriously long for curved screens and proper virtual camera that simulates a real lens.

Edit: When I use the word "perception", you'd be inclined to think there shouldn't be room for interpretation. That there should only be 1 reality. Yes, there "should" be only 1 solution. But when you start introducing limitations not present in the real world, that "should" has to be thrown out the window. How many times have you heard that something "should" work, or "should" go to plan, but doesn't? Unfortunately, that's the world of computers.

lordpantsington
03-22-12, 02:09 AM
If we all had monitors that showed what we see at the control of a car, at the size we see it, then I can see forcing cockpit as a valid option. Not everyone can hook into a massive wall hanging TV. I will never understand simulator/cockpit snobbery. Options are always good. The other view options are also very handy for modding.

D.Painter
03-22-12, 04:12 AM
get rid of all views except for COCKPIT??? WOW That's all about me! (Said in a VERY sarcastic manner!)I hear myself saying out loud to myself.

I know people who get sick using cockpit view. It always has head movement and they get quite ill from it. Me, Yes I use cockpit view. It doesn't bother me.

Gladly it seams your pretty much on your own with this opinion.


/cockpit snobbery

That about sums it up.

Neuro
03-23-12, 04:12 AM
I know people who get sick using cockpit view. It always has head movement and they get quite ill from it.

So, they have the option (.plr file "Cockpit Vibration Mult1/2" and "Cockpit Vibration Freq1/2" lines i believe) to switch it off, like hood camera does not have that shaking you talking about. :)

I prefer cockpit camera too, but I don't really care about in which view others drive... until they crash me. :))

DurgeDriven
03-23-12, 05:34 AM
You have the option to enforce cockpit only on servers.

Just thinking purely financially, it makes sense for even the best simulator to have some scale ability, just to get those extra sales. We have driver aids for the same reason. Some people do this for fun.

That is all fine and good. :)

But how about a version that is PRO so you have no views, no aids, including drive to pits, etc. etc.

That way people that use this do not need to bother with as many settings and all race equal without having to bother with any server settings.

Is that selfish ?

Hardly, you then have the NORMAL version that includes all aids so, what would anyone have to complain about. ?
Simple, if you want to race people in both you must buy 2 versions.

No one could have a issue with that either way surely. lol ?

D.Painter
03-23-12, 06:09 AM
So, they have the option (.plr file "Cockpit Vibration Mult1/2" and "Cockpit Vibration Freq1/2" lines i believe) to switch it off, like hood camera does not have that shaking you talking about. :)

I prefer cockpit camera too, but I don't really care about in which view others drive... until they crash me. :))

I was expecting that. Yes your right of cause but that doesn't justify not having a option.


That is all fine and good. :)

But how about a version that is PRO so you have no views, no aids, including drive to pits, etc. etc.

That way people that use this do not need to bother with as many settings and all race equal without having to bother with any server settings.

Is that selfish ?

Hardly, you then have the NORMAL version that includes all aids so, what would anyone have to complain about. ?
Simple, if you want to race people in both you must buy 2 versions.

No one could have a issue with that either way surely. lol ?

What a lot of tripe!!!

The sim gives you ALL the option to LOCK any aids out and enforce the driving view. If your league wants to run things like that it's not like it's hard to do and it's a one off! Set the server and that's it!


Is that selfish ?

Maybe not selfish but stupid when you have all the options available anyway.

Avigrace
03-23-12, 07:33 AM
I feel that bonnet cam is the most realistic, I am holding a steering wheel so why do I want to look at a steering wheel onscreen with hands holding it? I like to think that my monitor is the windscreen so bonnet cam feels the most natural.

DurgeDriven
03-23-12, 07:54 AM
What a lot of tripe!!!

Maybe not selfish but stupid

So if 2 versions were available you would buy the one with aids then set them all off.
Now that sounds stupid to me.

Sheesh if that is what you get here for just putting up a idea you can shove it.

All I said is a purists version would be nice, Tim even mentioned them.
I never said it was doable or viable did I. ?

I was explaining a way you could accommodate the originals posters wish
rather then just bag it.

Ahmad
03-23-12, 08:00 AM
lol, must be trolling.

D.Painter
03-23-12, 09:13 AM
Maybe not selfish but stupid when you have all the options available anyway.

I love the way you excluded part of the sentence to validate your comment.

Do you know of ANY other sim/game format that excludes drivers to have option available?

The point is LIKE Tim said,
You have the option to enforce cockpit only on servers.

The rest of the comment was
Just thinking purely financially, it makes sense for even the best simulator to have some scale ability, just to get those extra sales. We have driver aids for the same reason. Some people do this for fun.

Meaning the sim is here for everyone and not just a select few.

Racing Sims/Game are a very small part of the world of gaming. As such game producers regardless who they are need to for financial reasons have one platform be more suited the majority, NOT the minority.

The MAIN thing here is YOU HAVE OPTIONS!

If I need to buy a game and then turn off all the things I want to or need to so I can use it as I see fit then YES I would buy it and wouldn't give it a second thought in doing so!!

Ahmad;
If giving a point of view on a subject whether it be this one or any other is trolling then so be it. Yours or any ones opinion of me is of no consequence.

Ian-C
03-23-12, 10:30 AM
I feel that bonnet cam is the most realistic, I am holding a steering wheel so why do I want to look at a steering wheel onscreen with hands holding it? I like to think that my monitor is the windscreen so bonnet cam feels the most natural.

I totally agree with this, in rF1 i used bumper cam a lot (when not placed on the floor) as it gives best unobstructed view and also a good sense of speed. When the bumper cam is placed on the floor the next option is hood cam and as quoted above along with the virtual mirrors gives you the best all round view allowing for close racing without contact.

Satangoss
03-23-12, 06:24 PM
And what about get rid of keyboard players? Is there a way?

Tim Wheatley
03-23-12, 06:57 PM
And what about get rid of keyboard players? Is there a way?

You do that with driver aids, as they can't drive without some.

FatCity
03-23-12, 07:11 PM
Enforcing cockpit view is a way of equalizing things but what about the guys that use TrackIR stuff and the like, its usually these guys that want the forced cockpit views but in reality, their view is not equal to someone that doesnt use TrackIR, they have a different view.

Variable views is the way to go as then you can choose how you like it, no matter what hardware you have.

rer8
03-23-12, 07:16 PM
I have a friend who has vision problems and finds the cockpit view unusable... He is competitive online.

Jaageri
03-24-12, 06:08 AM
Just like me, i could not play IRACING at all due to only cockpit vision that gave me headaches and the feeling of vomiting, not nice.
3D-movies give me same problems why i just hate all the buy buy buy a 3D mumbojumbo tv NOW!!!

Good thing in rf-series is you can disable all the camera vibrations off, still hood view is my default view i use.

driver34
03-27-12, 07:04 AM
"bumper' view is the most realistic one.I am using a wheel to play racing games,and it is very unrealistic to see another wheel and hands on the screen,and the view is so limited.
If you have a 3 monitors set then ok

invisible car cam feel strange at first but after a while it just feels like your screen is your windshield and you are looking trough it to see the road

coops
03-28-12, 08:21 AM
You have the option to enforce cockpit only on servers.

Just thinking purely financially, it makes sense for even the best simulator to have some scale ability, just to get those extra sales. We have driver aids for the same reason. Some people do this for fun.

tim says it all right ere

jimcarrel
04-01-12, 08:24 PM
I like options, most people do. My option would be cockpit, however, if my next door neighbor wants "bumber" or "left wheel" or whatever, I would be glad for him or her to also have the option. I like for people to have options, rather than some controlling entities I know of.

ozspeedfreak
04-03-12, 01:05 AM
I feel that bonnet cam is the most realistic, I am holding a steering wheel so why do I want to look at a steering wheel onscreen with hands holding it? I like to think that my monitor is the windscreen so bonnet cam feels the most natural.
This says it all!! 1 steering wheel, 1 windscreen and 1 bonnet.

schuee
04-03-12, 02:06 AM
Could we get the driving view to show up in the log files?
<ControlAndAids endLap="56" startLap="1">PlayerControl,Clutch,AutoBlip</ControlAndAids>
(example)
<DrivingView endLap="56" startlap="1">Cockpit</DrivingView>

So we have some idea of the breakdown of what the drivers in the league are using.
Was involved in a league and for the new season we where going to enforce cockpit(F1s) about half the field where not keen to race so we had to forget that idea,and leave it as is.
We decided 16 was far better than only having 6-8 on the grid

Neuro
04-03-12, 03:09 AM
Could we get the driving view to show up in the log files?
<ControlAndAids endLap="56" startLap="1">PlayerControl,Clutch,AutoBlip</ControlAndAids>
(example)
<DrivingView endLap="56" startlap="1">Cockpit</DrivingView>

Hmm, good idea, I like it. Hope that ISI can make it with minimal effort, so we can see it soon if they find it useful too. :)

SimonV6
04-03-12, 04:08 AM
"bumper' view is the most realistic one.I am using a wheel to play racing games,and it is very unrealistic to see another wheel and hands on the screen,and the view is so limited.
If you have a 3 monitors set then ok

invisible car cam feel strange at first but after a while it just feels like your screen is your windshield and you are looking trough it to see the road thats why i turn off the steering wheel but bumper cam is not realistic as you dont drive real cars from that position?

Silent_alarm
04-05-12, 08:26 AM
thats why i turn off the steering wheel but bumper cam is not realistic as you dont drive real cars from that position?

Yeah well that isn't "realistic", but it's most of the time the best camera angle to get the feeling for what is happening and with smaller screens you get the visual data you need only from bumpercam.

I have 17" lcd monitor, that ain't much, and bumpercam is the only reasonable option with a screen that small. I drove GT5 with 50" Plasma screen, that was big enough for cockpit view, but the feeling was still messed up compared to the bumpercam. Like i was driving a car inside a car.

SimonV6
04-05-12, 11:41 AM
but I was taking Realism ;) oh and you don't need a 50" plasma to drive cockpit view and still be real, just make sure you adjust your FOV properlly for the correct size due to distance you sit from your monitor, and if you have a small monitor you just need to sit closer ;)

Simon

Silent_alarm
04-06-12, 08:09 AM
and if you have a small monitor you just need to sit closer ;)

Simon

"Oh welcome to my thinkingnut again, mr. headache for being too close to the screen" :D

I get it that this too is one of those "sports" where better equipment gives you the advantage.

Now i have the screen as close as possible to me, right behind the wheel, but it's not close enough for good cockpit view. For that it should be like 30cm far from my eyes. So having a good cockpit view requires much bigger screen so you wouldn't feel like your view is restricted too much, it's annoying in real life too so :D And then there is the fact that the screen sides always feel like the A-pillars already since you can see them in your real view. But let's say that if i get that 3 screen setup with 180 degree view area, i'll promise to use cockpit view after that :D But the point is, it actually needs to cover your entire field of view to feel good or atleast most of it. Using it with smaller screen feels like you would have something restricting your vision. And some of us use smaller screens because that's what we have and can't afford anything better, or could but we have other things that need to be looked after first like real cars that need maintenance. And trust me, i'm constantly having a battle in my head which one i want more, my turbo Subaru to be in running condition (parts that i need will cost me over 400) or bigger screen, new Graphics card and hard drive for playing. Both ways have their advantages :P