///M - OK
03-04-12, 05:34 PM
UPDATE:
Because this thread is meanwhile going deep into special mod details, I just want to do an overview to the already solved points of my wish list.
Answered topics are marked in Italic Grey. Take a look into postings if you are interested in related answers.
Infos and comments for the rest of the list are still welcome :)
Thanks to all racers who gave their reply and know-how, so far!
================================================== ==================================
Hi rFactor community,
I've been entertaining myself with virtual racing for two decades now and have done most of my laps and races in "Live For Speed" in the last five years. Even I've never been deep into rFactor1, I've heard about the guys from Image Space and their product rFactor Pro some months ago by chance. Because of that I thought by myself "Ok - if professional race teams trust on the rFactor engine, I should give rFactor2 a chance and get serious." For me as a real life vehicle engineer it is always interesting to play with the best vehicle dynamics engine available.
So I bought the beta of rF2 and did lots of test rides, races and telemetry work for the last week - mostly in Megane Trophy.
Because we are in beta testing period, I want to take the chance and share my thoughts, questions and complaints with you. This simulation really has the potential to become my favourite one.
Maybe you can give some hints and tricks to improve rF2 even more. I know it’s not a wishing wonderland and there won’t be the perfect simulation which fits to everyone’s needs, but let’s give it a try – maybe some points will find their way into final rF2:
Note:
Because I am new to the whole rFactor thing there might be some (or lots of) things which already exist or can be modified, but I’ve not found those information yet. So I am open for every helpful information.
Also I am not really sure about which things are related to the simulation itself and which are provided by the individual mod.
…and because I am not native speaking English there might be some wrong expressions within the text.
1. Driving
Driving all in all feels quite good, but a bit “damped / filtered”. I don’t feel the virtual car that precise on force feedback (under- and oversteer) and visual. For example vertical vibration when driving with suspension dampers deactivated does not lead to a bumpy view, even if telemetry data shows strong oscillation. When setting “head movement” to 100% it’s ok, but only shows low frequent vibrations.
Tire model seems to be close to real race-tire behaviour and therefore is really challenging (warm-up, sharp stability limit, …)
Change of grip level in and out of race line is feelable, but not visible => getting a visual feedback for race line would be nice
2. Views / camera
Because you have to deal with only 2-dimensions and limited surround view in virtual racing, you need to compensate that with a wide field of view to get a feeling for your surrounding. Cockpit view is only limited for that. What I would need for getting a better feeling for cars around me would be:
View without cockpit should be on same height/position like cockpit view (seat modification would be good for that view, too). There are some posts here relating to that wish…
Looking left and right should be 90° instead of approximate 45° to get a better feeling where your opponent is.
In cockpit view the additional arcade HUD is not necessary and cannot be deactivated without deactivating the right-handed info display
Rear view mirror is distorted horizontal => why? (virtual rear view mirror has normal view)
In addition to existing mirror modes it would be helpful to deactivate normal rear view mirror including frame completely if virtual mirrors are activated
Changing seat position leads to the situation that you cannot see the track in mirror anymore. Mirrors should be set correctly in every seat position
These suggestions may be a bit LFS orientated and my personal opinion, but it helped me to get a good overview for the race going on around me in LFS:
a track layout with position of all cars instead of the lap-based bar at the bottom would support a better rating for the opponent position
Why do the driver names have to be fixed at the top of the screen in height of mirrors, attached on a large line going half over the screen? Just the name directly over the car gives you all the info you need in your central field of view.
Replay / viewers mode / pit mode
If view of steering-wheel is disabled in your settings, you see a looked steering-wheel when watching to other drivers => the wheel should move regular in replay and viewer mode
I am a fan of lap times. After a race it would be interesting to see the fastest lap of each driver besides the complete race time.
A lap time counter would also be interesting in viewers mode when watching to other drivers, especially when you are in pit and curious if the opponent will beat your time or you are waiting for the start of the next race and just want to watch the current race like on TV
3. Online races
One of the main features of LFS is the very smooth behaviour in online mode (ping / lagging). Only because of that you are able to do real close fights with opponents. There is nothing worse than suddenly appearing and disappearing cars in front of you. That is one of the main reasons why GTR Evolution never found its way into my favourite online racers, even when singleplayer mode is good. Unfortunately rF2 is more GTR than LFS when it comes to lagging.
What is the reason for that? Are there to many data transferred to synchronize between all racers? Or may it be dependable on your pc hardware (and if so which component). It would be good to get some reply to that.
Above all modes and layers should be the chat mode. Even if you are in replay, viewers, pit or race mode, you should always get the possibility to chat.
4. Telemetry and setup
After driving some rounds and reducing lap times only by optimizing race line and driving skills, there will be the time when it’s getting interesting: Finding the last 1 or 2 seconds by tweaking the setup. For me as an engineer this is the most funny and challenging part.
I love the Motec plugin for rF2, because it even works in multiplayer mode. Perfect!
Unfortunately you are very restricted in setup possibilities depending on the chosen mod (Megane Trophy as low budget race series is disappointing here)
An additional channel for “Suspension travel left” should be integrated into data logging. In real life the race engineer knows the suspension travel because he can pick the suspension to take a look at it or the data sheet. In virtual racing you do not have that option. This channel would be really helpful in setting up ride height.
When starting telemetry analysis you want to change your setup on a physical basis. Unfortunately the values for suspension dampers are not physical (e.g. N*s/mm). This would be really helpful when calculating damper settings based on FFT or time-based analysis. With unit-free scaling like “-1/3 turn” in Megane Trophy you need to test drive each setting in hope for representative data logging… not very engineering. This point is one of the worst, because it gives you no chance to solve setup problems on a numerical basis.
A virtual test lab would also be really interesting for finding good suspension settings. Especially an inital car drop-down would help to find good bound / rebound settings. Maybe something like that already exists (see VHPA in topic no. 5).
In addition to that I am searching for a test track mod with skid pads and a long straight. Is there anything like that for rF2?
When changing ride height and/or rear wing setting in Megane Trophy, I cannot see an influence on car drag or top speed. How can that be?
5. Online community
I always thought that rF has more drivers than LFS, and therefore there should be more tools available. Until now I can’t find setup tools or really detailed setup guides within the online community. Is there anything available which supports you in modifying setups? For LFS there is a tool available called “VHPA” (Vehicle Handling and Performance Analyser) – maybe there are some rFactor based data already created for that.
Will there be a central, official rF2 website where you can log on to see lap times, world records, upcoming events and other stuff?
I know, I know – a lot of text with a lot of wishes… Because the whole rFactor environment allows free programming, I could try to create the programs and mods I need by myself. But I am not a software engineer :( Hopefully there are other enthusiasts with better skills who already have done the thinking and work for me :)
Hoping for some nice feedbacks and discussions I am waiting for your reply.
Thanks for reading
///M - OK
Because this thread is meanwhile going deep into special mod details, I just want to do an overview to the already solved points of my wish list.
Answered topics are marked in Italic Grey. Take a look into postings if you are interested in related answers.
Infos and comments for the rest of the list are still welcome :)
Thanks to all racers who gave their reply and know-how, so far!
================================================== ==================================
Hi rFactor community,
I've been entertaining myself with virtual racing for two decades now and have done most of my laps and races in "Live For Speed" in the last five years. Even I've never been deep into rFactor1, I've heard about the guys from Image Space and their product rFactor Pro some months ago by chance. Because of that I thought by myself "Ok - if professional race teams trust on the rFactor engine, I should give rFactor2 a chance and get serious." For me as a real life vehicle engineer it is always interesting to play with the best vehicle dynamics engine available.
So I bought the beta of rF2 and did lots of test rides, races and telemetry work for the last week - mostly in Megane Trophy.
Because we are in beta testing period, I want to take the chance and share my thoughts, questions and complaints with you. This simulation really has the potential to become my favourite one.
Maybe you can give some hints and tricks to improve rF2 even more. I know it’s not a wishing wonderland and there won’t be the perfect simulation which fits to everyone’s needs, but let’s give it a try – maybe some points will find their way into final rF2:
Note:
Because I am new to the whole rFactor thing there might be some (or lots of) things which already exist or can be modified, but I’ve not found those information yet. So I am open for every helpful information.
Also I am not really sure about which things are related to the simulation itself and which are provided by the individual mod.
…and because I am not native speaking English there might be some wrong expressions within the text.
1. Driving
Driving all in all feels quite good, but a bit “damped / filtered”. I don’t feel the virtual car that precise on force feedback (under- and oversteer) and visual. For example vertical vibration when driving with suspension dampers deactivated does not lead to a bumpy view, even if telemetry data shows strong oscillation. When setting “head movement” to 100% it’s ok, but only shows low frequent vibrations.
Tire model seems to be close to real race-tire behaviour and therefore is really challenging (warm-up, sharp stability limit, …)
Change of grip level in and out of race line is feelable, but not visible => getting a visual feedback for race line would be nice
2. Views / camera
Because you have to deal with only 2-dimensions and limited surround view in virtual racing, you need to compensate that with a wide field of view to get a feeling for your surrounding. Cockpit view is only limited for that. What I would need for getting a better feeling for cars around me would be:
View without cockpit should be on same height/position like cockpit view (seat modification would be good for that view, too). There are some posts here relating to that wish…
Looking left and right should be 90° instead of approximate 45° to get a better feeling where your opponent is.
In cockpit view the additional arcade HUD is not necessary and cannot be deactivated without deactivating the right-handed info display
Rear view mirror is distorted horizontal => why? (virtual rear view mirror has normal view)
In addition to existing mirror modes it would be helpful to deactivate normal rear view mirror including frame completely if virtual mirrors are activated
Changing seat position leads to the situation that you cannot see the track in mirror anymore. Mirrors should be set correctly in every seat position
These suggestions may be a bit LFS orientated and my personal opinion, but it helped me to get a good overview for the race going on around me in LFS:
a track layout with position of all cars instead of the lap-based bar at the bottom would support a better rating for the opponent position
Why do the driver names have to be fixed at the top of the screen in height of mirrors, attached on a large line going half over the screen? Just the name directly over the car gives you all the info you need in your central field of view.
Replay / viewers mode / pit mode
If view of steering-wheel is disabled in your settings, you see a looked steering-wheel when watching to other drivers => the wheel should move regular in replay and viewer mode
I am a fan of lap times. After a race it would be interesting to see the fastest lap of each driver besides the complete race time.
A lap time counter would also be interesting in viewers mode when watching to other drivers, especially when you are in pit and curious if the opponent will beat your time or you are waiting for the start of the next race and just want to watch the current race like on TV
3. Online races
One of the main features of LFS is the very smooth behaviour in online mode (ping / lagging). Only because of that you are able to do real close fights with opponents. There is nothing worse than suddenly appearing and disappearing cars in front of you. That is one of the main reasons why GTR Evolution never found its way into my favourite online racers, even when singleplayer mode is good. Unfortunately rF2 is more GTR than LFS when it comes to lagging.
What is the reason for that? Are there to many data transferred to synchronize between all racers? Or may it be dependable on your pc hardware (and if so which component). It would be good to get some reply to that.
Above all modes and layers should be the chat mode. Even if you are in replay, viewers, pit or race mode, you should always get the possibility to chat.
4. Telemetry and setup
After driving some rounds and reducing lap times only by optimizing race line and driving skills, there will be the time when it’s getting interesting: Finding the last 1 or 2 seconds by tweaking the setup. For me as an engineer this is the most funny and challenging part.
I love the Motec plugin for rF2, because it even works in multiplayer mode. Perfect!
Unfortunately you are very restricted in setup possibilities depending on the chosen mod (Megane Trophy as low budget race series is disappointing here)
An additional channel for “Suspension travel left” should be integrated into data logging. In real life the race engineer knows the suspension travel because he can pick the suspension to take a look at it or the data sheet. In virtual racing you do not have that option. This channel would be really helpful in setting up ride height.
When starting telemetry analysis you want to change your setup on a physical basis. Unfortunately the values for suspension dampers are not physical (e.g. N*s/mm). This would be really helpful when calculating damper settings based on FFT or time-based analysis. With unit-free scaling like “-1/3 turn” in Megane Trophy you need to test drive each setting in hope for representative data logging… not very engineering. This point is one of the worst, because it gives you no chance to solve setup problems on a numerical basis.
A virtual test lab would also be really interesting for finding good suspension settings. Especially an inital car drop-down would help to find good bound / rebound settings. Maybe something like that already exists (see VHPA in topic no. 5).
In addition to that I am searching for a test track mod with skid pads and a long straight. Is there anything like that for rF2?
When changing ride height and/or rear wing setting in Megane Trophy, I cannot see an influence on car drag or top speed. How can that be?
5. Online community
I always thought that rF has more drivers than LFS, and therefore there should be more tools available. Until now I can’t find setup tools or really detailed setup guides within the online community. Is there anything available which supports you in modifying setups? For LFS there is a tool available called “VHPA” (Vehicle Handling and Performance Analyser) – maybe there are some rFactor based data already created for that.
Will there be a central, official rF2 website where you can log on to see lap times, world records, upcoming events and other stuff?
I know, I know – a lot of text with a lot of wishes… Because the whole rFactor environment allows free programming, I could try to create the programs and mods I need by myself. But I am not a software engineer :( Hopefully there are other enthusiasts with better skills who already have done the thinking and work for me :)
Hoping for some nice feedbacks and discussions I am waiting for your reply.
Thanks for reading
///M - OK