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Scott Juliano
01-10-12, 01:42 AM
The new tire model REALLY makes proper tire warming important. When you first leave the garage the tires are not up to their operating temperature and thus are quite slippery. Simply "burning rubber" isn't enough--it takes strong laps at racing speed to build up the internal tire temps. Some tires actually take a good 4 to 6 laps to bring them up to proper temperature. Keep this in mind as you are working on a setup--you have to turn a few laps to get a good feel for the changes you've made.

This effect can be compounded when driving on a "green" track. The lack of rubber on the track surface can have a radical effect on how the cars feels. You'll find that as you progress through a weekend and the track continues to "rubber in" you may need to alter your setup to compensate.

On a "green" track with cold tires you'll need to be EXTREMELY cautious until things start to warm up.

CdnRacer
01-10-12, 01:46 AM
Sounds awesome!


http://www.picturesofsmileyfaces.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Pictures-of-Smiley-Faces-02.jpg

ESP=EWE=
01-10-12, 01:46 AM
oh yeah....love the sound of that :)

buddhatree
01-10-12, 01:50 AM
Been waiting for this for so long... Really great stuff :D

Scott Juliano
01-10-12, 01:52 AM
Not trying to tease or anything, btw. Just adding things I know will be asked as I think of them :)

coolmike
01-10-12, 01:53 AM
Sounds good to me! Can't wait to get my hands on it :)

buddhatree
01-10-12, 02:02 AM
Not trying to tease or anything, btw. Just adding things I know will be asked as I think of them :)

lol I didn't mean the beta per se, I meant that feature (along with truly "live" track).

Having a true live track with a realistic tire model has been my sim race dream for a long time now :)

Slothman
01-10-12, 02:09 AM
See....the private mod for rF1 we had, already did that for us...as well as optimal pressure etc etc...but I can tell you...with the addition of rubber etc...I really fricking cant wait :)

Slothman
01-10-12, 02:10 AM
I sooo wanted to see

Subject: The Car is to hard to control for the first few laps.

Content: Suck it up princess and learn to drive...

NOW THAT would have been a great FAQ post...

sg333
01-10-12, 06:22 AM
Scott, is there any difference in this sense between the "old" 1960's tires of the 60's F1 cars and the tires on the new(er) cars?

Kev Higgins
01-10-12, 06:49 AM
Great to hear Scott! - Thanks!

Tim Wheatley
01-10-12, 06:58 AM
Scott, is there any difference in this sense between the "old" 1960's tires of the 60's F1 cars and the tires on the new(er) cars?You mean within the 1960's cars still? Not to me, no... You should find yourself driving well below your (or rather the tires) limit the first few laps regardless.

frankwer
01-10-12, 07:55 AM
Doesn`t sound promising for us that is used to first turn pileups :)

mikeyk1985
01-10-12, 08:32 AM
I am going to last about 3 seconds with my non ffb xbox wheel, really wish I still had a g27 :(

Max Melamed
01-10-12, 08:39 AM
That sounds to good to be true! :D Imagine that in Le Mans or Nordschleife :D dude im curios how that's gonna feel :D ISI thx!

Hoschi
01-10-12, 08:41 AM
Thats cool and hard, but real driving. like that ;)

pirolla
01-10-12, 08:50 AM
this got me thinking on the first turn on amateurs leagues... ;)

Scott Juliano
01-10-12, 08:53 AM
this got me thinking on the first turn on amateurs leagues... ;)

Um... Yeah :)

FoXXb8
01-10-12, 08:57 AM
Hi Scott. Just a thought but will there be something to tell us when the track is green or rubbered in like a HUD icon from green to red or at the monitor screen some info as to the track condition? As in this example from another post of yours.


The groove is carried from one session to the next. Currently, when you start a weekend the track is green. There is code that will allow us to set the level of rubber on the track at the beginning of the weekend, but it's not fully implemented yet as a feature. And yes, when weather is complete the track will change between sessions depending on the current weather (at least the last time I heard that was the plan

Also would it be time based on the weather as to when the track is "lost" from rubbered in back to green? e.g if it rains for 10min or more then the track will become green.

Cheers mate.

worthy1066
01-10-12, 09:08 AM
Hi Scott. Just a thought but will there be something to tell us when the track is green or rubbered in like a HUD icon from green to red or at the monitor screen some info as to the track condition? As in this example from another post of yours.

"The groove is carried from one session to the next. Currently, when you start a weekend the track is green. There is code that will allow us to set the level of rubber on the track at the beginning of the weekend, but it's not fully implemented yet as a feature. And yes, when weather is complete the track will change between sessions depending on the current weather (at least the last time I heard that was the plan)"

Also would it be time based on the weather as to when the track is "lost" from rubbered in back to green? e.g if it rains for 10min or more then the track will become green.

Cheers mate.

Also wind factors would come into play if there is substantial amounts

Scott Juliano
01-10-12, 09:15 AM
There certainly could be some sort of icon or status for current track condition, but nothing is implemented specifically for that yet. You can certainly see and FEEL the difference.

As for the other, honestly I don't have an answer for you. I don't know the details of the code the programmer has planned. I'll see if I can find out something but can't promise anything ATM...

cluj
01-10-12, 09:27 AM
Scott what about the brake blocks and make flat tires?? There is now progress in that??

FoXXb8
01-10-12, 09:50 AM
There certainly could be some sort of icon or status for current track condition, but nothing is implemented specifically for that yet. You can certainly see and FEEL the difference.

As for the other, honestly I don't have an answer for you. I don't know the details of the code the programmer has planned. I'll see if I can find out something but can't promise anything ATM...

Awesome and thanks for the response, but mate don't go out of your way. I appreciate your answers and your time taken already. I'm sure its a very busy time for you all.

Cheers and goodluck with it.

Rui Santos
01-10-12, 10:26 AM
Hi Scott, i've asked this before but as i think you're the man who can explain it to us with more detail i'm asking again.

Can you tell us if in rFactor 2 we have to be consistent like in real life to do a good race (saving tires, engine), holding position to attack later, or we can just drive like crazy like some guys do in rFactor 1 to win races? Thanks in advance! Also, do we need in wet weather to go off the drying line sometimes (to the wet side) to refresh tire temps OR get to the side (out of opponent tail in front of you) on a straight in dry race so your car can take fresh air into the engine like we see sometimes in real life (after several laps behind your opponent wind "warm" tunnel)?

Scott Juliano
01-10-12, 10:33 AM
The tire model isn't completely finished yet, so currently you can abuse the tires more than you should. However, I would get in the practice of trying to drive consistently now so that when it IS finished you won't burn them to a crisp. This same applies to wet tires. That said, if you abuse the tires too much you will feel a difference, just not the full affect yet.

You can run hot from following directly behind someone for too long. So yes, in longer races you need to step out a bit to get some clean air...

Rui Santos
01-10-12, 10:36 AM
The tire model isn't completely finished yet, so currently you can abuse the tires more than you should. However, I would get in the practice of trying to drive consistently now so that when it IS finished you won't burn them to a crisp. This same applies to wet tires. That said, if you abuse the tires too much you will feel a difference, just not the full affect yet.

You can run hot from following directly behind someone for too long. So yes, in longer races you need to step out a bit to get some clean air...

Thanks a lot!! By now the part you can abuse the tires are bad news but it's only by now :D

Cheers mate and keep up the good work :cool:

O11
01-10-12, 11:07 AM
Hi Scott. Just a thought but will there be something to tell us when the track is green or rubbered in like a HUD icon from green to red or at the monitor screen some info as to the track condition? As in this example from another post of yours.



Also would it be time based on the weather as to when the track is "lost" from rubbered in back to green? e.g if it rains for 10min or more then the track will become green.

Cheers mate.

No, please not. That defeats the purpose of 'reading' the track completely. Just like that stupid HUD thing that shows you the current tyre temperature and wear. It's bulldada. You're supposed to feel is through your wheel and the behaviour of your car. Gain confidence in your car through experience and feeling, not because the HUD says the track and your tyres are at optimal temperature.

FoXXb8
01-10-12, 12:14 PM
No, please not. That defeats the purpose of 'reading' the track completely. Just like that stupid HUD thing that shows you the current tyre temperature and wear. It's bulldada. You're supposed to feel is through your wheel and the behaviour of your car. Gain confidence in your car through experience and feeling, not because the HUD says the track and your tyres are at optimal temperature.

Yes i agree when in the race, but leading up to the race you are a one man team so info like tyre temp and track is needed to make a good setup isn't it? also i would think you would want to know this as the track could go from rubbered-in to green by the end of a session and if you weren't on the track to feel this how would you know if the track had changed? Ok maybe not a HUD info screen but something i guess at the monitor screen level so it would give you the chance to choose a setup for that condition and the next session. If thats how setups are going to work?

I started this thread for this very reason.

http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/1606-Car-setups-v-track-conditions-(green-rubbered-in)

Simon Melhuish
01-10-12, 01:41 PM
this got me thinking on the first turn on amateurs leagues... ;)

FSR then :D

Dimitri De Matos
01-10-12, 01:53 PM
FSR then :D

amateurs? really? best joke of the day?

Nor
01-10-12, 01:54 PM
No, please not. That defeats the purpose of 'reading' the track completely. Just like that stupid HUD thing that shows you the current tyre temperature and wear. It's bulldada. You're supposed to feel is through your wheel and the behaviour of your car. Gain confidence in your car through experience and feeling, not because the HUD says the track and your tyres are at optimal temperature.

In my opinion it's bulldada not to have such displays. As in real racing every driver has a team in his pits, he always gets information about the trackconditions, tyreconditions weather forecast and so on. Maybe not in every small touring car competition, but F1, DTM and some more have lot of informations available.

And btw, real live driver has lot more posibillities to grab information as he is physically connected to the track, we are only virtually conected.

Will Fly
01-10-12, 02:11 PM
No, please not. That defeats the purpose of 'reading' the track completely. Just like that stupid HUD thing that shows you the current tyre temperature and wear. It's bulldada. You're supposed to feel is through your wheel and the behaviour of your car. Gain confidence in your car through experience and feeling, not because the HUD says the track and your tyres are at optimal temperature.

sorry dont agree with ya

you never had an engine blow, brakes fail,punchard tyre, all this can be reduced or stopped by reading the hud correctly

maybe if you run 100% races or endurance,to complete you need the hud

sry missed the green track hud,and i also dont agree

richiespeed13
01-10-12, 02:13 PM
In my opinion it's bulldada not to have such displays. As in real racing every driver has a team in his pits, he always gets information about the trackconditions, tyreconditions weather forecast and so on. Maybe not in every small touring car competition, but F1, DTM and some more have lot of informations available.

And btw, real live driver has lot more posibillities to grab information as he is physically connected to the track, we are only virtually conected.

I can agree with both of your points and understand what you mean.

I think it's going to be important to gain a good balance though, we don't want too much information as it could start to damage realism and immersion.

Standard weather and track temp info displays are good, but track "green-ness" really does not need an icon IMO, it's one of those things that should be left to visual development of the track, feel, and most importantly common sense.

Even super arcade F1 2011 doesn't have an indicator for track development.

The whole point of track development IMO is to add realism, randomness, and dynamic situations to the track. If we have a "track development = 90%" bar, it will really kill immersion.

NightSt@lk3r
01-10-12, 02:38 PM
FSR then :DUnderstatement of the century.

Simon Melhuish
01-10-12, 02:43 PM
amateurs? really? best joke of the day?

Thats what it was suppose to be, a joke. I guess some people dont get British humour :)

doug484
01-10-12, 02:43 PM
I think it's going to be important to gain a good balance though, we don't want too much information as it could start to damage realism and immersion.

I worked on a real car for many years (oval asphalt racing), and so many times I have seen drivers on the track (before anything started) talking amongst themselves and rubbing their shoe over the track. You can't always predict how your setup will interact with the rubber on the track (or even what kind of rubber) and the temperature, but I'd say real drivers have a lot more information about the track than we do driving on a computer - they can walk about and look at the track or feel it with their shoe.

raisen1964
01-10-12, 02:56 PM
No, please not. That defeats the purpose of 'reading' the track completely. Just like that stupid HUD thing that shows you the current tyre temperature and wear. It's bulldada. You're supposed to feel is through your wheel and the behaviour of your car. Gain confidence in your car through experience and feeling, not because the HUD says the track and your tyres are at optimal temperature.I don't know about current LMP's, but back in the 80's Jaguar C1 cars had 3 point temperature sensors across their tyres feeding telemetry and if I remember right, idiot lights on the dash.

richiespeed13
01-10-12, 03:00 PM
Yes, and when I am racing me and otter drivers also walk the track, but what do we learn?

Firstly, you can only walk a track early morning, or at a lunch break if allowed. So generally you already know the track is green. Early morning we normally kick stones of the track, or check for damp or icy sections.

In what way does that give me updated info about track stats during the day?

It should be as is in real life, you use your brain to acknowledge what track conditions are based on current circumstances.

For example, it's practice 1 at mills in the Renault cup car. First session of the weekend, track temp is 30c, and the forecast is clear for the day. And let's say there are 20 cars going to be driving in the 1 hour session. You can safely assume that after 1 hour the track will be significantly more rubbered in than at the start.

Now let's say practice 2 starts and it pours with rain. You can now safely assume the track has had much of its grip removed.

Like a real driver, you should do a few laps just to get a feel for where the grip is on the track.

A smal indicator would be ok, like:

"track status: dry"
"condition: Green"

Or

"track status: damp"
"condition: greasy"

Etc. hope you can see what I am trying to explain.

GTrFreak
01-10-12, 03:05 PM
I worked on a real car for many years (oval asphalt racing), and so many times I have seen drivers on the track (before anything started) talking amongst themselves and rubbing their shoe over the track. You can't always predict how your setup will interact with the rubber on the track (or even what kind of rubber) and the temperature, but I'd say real drivers have a lot more information about the track than we do driving on a computer - they can walk about and look at the track or feel it with their shoe.

Ok, ISI:

Back to work, modeling a shoe..! ;)

only joking

doug484
01-10-12, 03:16 PM
hope you can see what I am trying to explain.

I agree with you completely. Yes, the driver still has to assemble all this different information in his/her mind to be able to drive the track appropriately.

Besides looking at the track and feeling it with a shoe, the real driver feels the track when their butt is in the seat. Until some clever company can develop a force feedback seat for us that realistically simulates the g-forces we have to depend on what the sim tells us. My own suggestion would be for a sim to give more information to compensate.

100mph
01-11-12, 08:48 AM
Totally agree with Doug !

Those who don't wish such info... can simply turn it Off.

Deci=EWE=
01-11-12, 02:42 PM
Ok, ISI:

Back to work, modeling a shoe..! ;)

only joking

you forgot about the 3d drivers and pit crews that you will need to walk around the track to use the shoe.

I can see it now, people will now have rev burners, flashy modded g series wheels and a pair of logitech usb track testing shoes next to their racing cockpit... hope they come in size 14:cool:

MaxLt
01-11-12, 06:30 PM
It would be great to have the ability to simulate hot tires right out of the pits to make car set up sessions more productive - this is a simulator, after all, and some of us use it because we are too busy/lazy to do the real thing - please do not take this away.

LesiU
01-11-12, 09:45 PM
Maybe you should use Dev Mode for that? :)

Even in rF 1 have the ability to define starting temperature for tyres... but it's up to modders of particular racing series, to set that. You can also create your own version of a mod, with modified tyre file. No need to ask devs to do something, you can do by yourself :)

WallyM
01-11-12, 09:58 PM
What I miss immediately from netKar is the ability to keep your warm tires on the car when you return to the pitbox to make some minor change. It would be great if the game only put new tires on if you asked it to, to save the time of having to reheat your tires every time you leave the pits.

Slothman
01-11-12, 10:10 PM
Thats not a bad idea. A simple check box in the setup to "keep tyres". What about wear??

WallyM
01-11-12, 11:37 PM
Thats not a bad idea. A simple check box in the setup to "keep tyres". What about wear??
In netKar, if you keep old tires, they maintain their temperature (slowly cooling the longer you sit in pits) and their wear. Just as you would expect.